The Real You
1:1 Long-Form Interviews with Interesting People Doing Amazing Things
In-depth discussion of people's journeys to tap into their full potential and find ways to be the truest version of themselves.
The Real You
EP 13: Embracing Authenticity: Robb Gilbear’s Journey from DJ to Author to Business Growth Coaching
What happens when a music producer and DJ transforms into a habits coach and mental health advocate? Join our captivating conversation with Robb Gilbear, the visionary behind Growth Habit, as he reveals his incredible journey. Robb shares how a viral LinkedIn video turned his coaching business around and spurred new opportunities.
Together, we uncover the secrets to standing out on LinkedIn—showcasing your true self through video content and making genuine connections, with a special nod to our mutual friend, Xenia Smith.
In an era where digital experimentation can lead to groundbreaking success, we dive into the power of taking action and starting with what you love. Robb and I discuss how to avoid getting trapped in endless planning and instead embrace the freedom to test and adapt ideas quickly. We introduce the concept of "holding your big goals loosely," emphasizing flexibility and real-world client interactions for invaluable insights.
Listen as we highlight the importance of small steps in achieving significant breakthroughs and the unique advantages of the digital age.
Our talk takes a profound turn as Robb opens up about his mental health journey, the transformative process of writing his book "Die Before They Do," and the life-changing decision to quit alcohol.
From deep, heartfelt conversations with family to the evolving attitudes towards sobriety, Robb's story is a testament to resilience and self-awareness. We also explore the profound impact of personal storytelling on LinkedIn, the hidden struggles that accompany success, and the undeniable strength found in genuine connections.
Prepare to be inspired by tales of endurance, both physical and emotional, and discover the power of authenticity in both life and business.
linkedin.com/in/robbgilbear
https://www.growthhabit.org/content-that-creates-clients
Welcome to the Real you Podcast. I'm your host, david Young, and this is episode 13. This podcast assesses tapping into your full potential and finding ways to be the truest version of yourself. Today, I'm joined by Rob Gilbert, founder of Growth Habit, published author and a mental health advocate. We will discuss his journey, how he uses LinkedIn, the power of connection and, more than likely, 80s and 90s music, which will include rap and rock. Rob, this is going to be a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for having me, David. I'm grateful to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. First, I want to thank our mutual connection, xenia Smith, and she's the reason why this is even happening. Not too long ago, I think, she messaged me, said that you guys had a good relationship and talked frequently and that she thought you and I would be good to connections, and so we got on a call and it was great and I'm having you on the show. So we have to thank Xenia, because she's the ultimate connector and it also shows the power of LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:She really is the ultimate connector and she does those regular posts where she's just shouting out people and why she appreciates them and what's awesome about them. And I was lucky enough to meet her in person. I did an in-person event in Toronto in September and she came and it was. There was some learning, some connecting and mastermind and she's got the same kind of caring, kind, awesome, generous energy in person as she does online and on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:Awesome, that's great to hear. Yeah, she does online and on LinkedIn. Awesome, that's great to hear. Yeah, she's one of my favorites. I've had, I think, three or four calls with her and what we've decided is that her and I are kind of the same person, just different sex in a different country but we have so many personality, just like quirks and like the analytical thinking and attention to detail and like love of sports. She's a big basketball fan, she's a runner, like. We have all these, all these things in common. Um, so, yeah, she's been one of my favorites, but it does show you, like the platform, right? Like if you don't put yourself out there, I never meet her. I probably never start to show you and I never meet, right, it's this, it's the making yourself visible so that people can find you. Um, so talk a little bit about how long you've been on LinkedIn. No-transcript.
Speaker 2:So I was really slow to create an account on LinkedIn because in my previous career I was a music producer, DJ, record label owner and my life was in the nightlife and when I started my second career and started working in offices, I didn't want that to be known. I didn't want to be judged for any stereotypes that come with that. So I was reluctant and slow to create an account on LinkedIn. And it wasn't until I started a job in recruiting in maybe 2012, around there, where I was forced to. I had no choice. I was in recruiting, leading a team of recruit. Forced to, I had no choice. I was in recruiting, leading a team of recruiters. So I had to have an account. And then I use LinkedIn like everyone else did. It was a resume holder, a place to say I'm so honored and grateful that our company has done whatever thing that we're celebrating and the typical very adorable kind of posts.
Speaker 2:And then, as I was gearing up to leave my job and go all in on coaching and focusing on being a habits coach, really, I saw the potential on LinkedIn. I'd heard that there's different things going on. I started to see that people were publishing more creative things on the platform, so I started sharing stuff stories about going to visit my grandmother, reflections after being at Burning man, and then, when I was actually leaving my job, I posted a video and the headline said I quit my job and I can't believe how well things are working out, and I explained what I was doing, why I was doing it, who I was excited to serve. That post went viral. It got over 20,000 views, even though I had 1,800 or 1,900 connections. It led to an influx of people reaching out to me, inboxing me, wanting to speak with me, wanting to work with me, and I had to leave my job a month earlier than planned because of the business I got on the back end of that post.
Speaker 2:And since then, I've been very intentionally active on the platform.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Also shows you the power of the video right. You know, active on the platform. That's amazing. Also shows you the power of the video right being able to see you, hear. You feel your energy. You always come across with such great energy and I think people see that it comes across authentically, but it also comes across as somebody you want to work with, right, you want to be in your space, you want to take some of what you've got, so I think it's a real powerful part of kind of what you do. Did you know then that video was going to be so powerful for you, or is that just kind of something you did naturally or something you worked on?
Speaker 2:I am natural and comfortable to just turn on a camera and just chat and speak and share thoughts, and I think that comes from the music days.
Speaker 2:I previously would have said that I struggle with writing. I would have never believed I could have written a book and those are things that have changed and evolved that we, you know, we'll get into, and it was just easy for me to just turn on a video and speak to it, and at the time, linkedin was overemphasizing videos and I knew that I was like, okay, I'm comfortable on video and I can just turn it on and talk. The platform is currently amplifying videos. It's combining two awesome things together. So it was intentional from that perspective. And it's funny because back then LinkedIn was amplifying videos and then it went through a period of a couple of years where it was really penalizing videos and videos didn't do well. And now we're entering into an era where LinkedIn seems to be being kind to videos again and they're even coming out with an intentional video feed that's similar to Instagram Reels or YouTube Shorts or TikTok.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's like the circle of life and the cycle of life, right, you know? Guest jeans, awesome Guest jeans, terrible Guest jeans are back right, peg your jeans, nope, roll them down. When are jams coming back? That's what I want to know. Did you have jams where you were? Do you remember those? I?
Speaker 2:did not have jams, but I remember seeing them everywhere and they were really popular. Well, look, there's a coffee shop near me that I go and sit at often during the week and just go put headphones on and get some focus work done, and it's close to a high school and the high schoolers come in and out of the corner of my eye. If I didn't look up, it's as if I'm looking at what kids were wearing when I was in high school in the 90s, and it really is a cycle of life, a cycle of fashion, a cycle of music.
Speaker 1:It really it's remarkable. I mean, like my son, my oldest son is 14. He'll be 15 this summer but you know he's loving, like he just bought the Nike Dunk Lows and it's like those are like 1980s. Those were really popular in 1985, right, but now they're in all these colors and all these different shapes and you know the kids love them and you know Michael Jordan is still super popular. Like it's just, it's remarkable, right, like the staying power, even the simplicity, like in those shoes. Those shoes they're not super fancy, that was one of Nike's earliest creations. The kids now they go crazy. The hairstyles are all super. I don't know how it is up there, but they're super floppy here. All the kids have this huge mop of hair. It's just so much hair. But yeah, it's really funny the way it comes and goes.
Speaker 1:The video is interesting because there's real power in video, because people, it's just easier, like when, when you read someone's text, you kind of unless if you don't know them and you haven't spoken to them, right, you have this preconceived notion what they sound like, and I know they have. Everybody has their profile picture, which can be misleading, um, so you have this vision of what they look like, what they sound like, and then you're reading the post in that, what you have, right, but the video eliminates all of it. So now you're seeing, like real time, what do they look like, what do they sound like? I've had people I haven't done too many videos. It's like oh, your voice is deeper than I expected, right, like you just have, you just you've, you've had.
Speaker 1:We all do it, right. We create this persona in our heads based on mostly nothing, just whatever we think. So it gives you that real time, like, oh, this is what they look like, what they sound like, and you can feel the way they talk, the way they speak, their energy, and so I'm actually glad. I don't know about the whole Instagram reels and the TikTok copying, but I am glad that LinkedIn is doing more focused on video, because I think it's a great way to build your brand. It's also just a great way for people to get to know you, just easier than just reading those long written texts.
Speaker 2:It's so true and it's a really rich form of media and you feel like you're getting to know the person. And it's funny because when video was big on LinkedIn, I was publishing more of it. I frequently got on the calls with people and they would say some version of I feel like I already know you. And then when video was downgraded and became more about writing and I got better writing and practiced my writing and wrote a book, I was putting a lot of written content and what happened is I had people thought I was British and then I started doing videos and people were like I thought you're from the UK. I've had this comment from six. Seven people were convinced I was from the UK and it took me forever to figure it out and then I realized it's because I'm in Canada. So color has a U, humor has a U, center is spelled R-E-E-N not E-R.
Speaker 2:Like there's these little tweaks which people just assumed I was British. But then I started popping up on video. Again they were like wait a minute, you're not from the UK. I'm so confused. Video again.
Speaker 1:They were like wait a minute, you're not from the uk. I'm so confused. What's happening right now? That's amazing, uh, and a perfect example. Um, so how? So? Talk about? So you were, you're a recruiter and obviously in the corporate you know, doing the kind of standard corporate work, and that evolved. And I know in our last conversation it talked, you talked about how it kind of you were. You kind of went in one area and then you kind of just every there were like periods where you kind of just evolved and evolved and evolved and then finally got to where you are now, which is kind of helping other coaches grow their business right. How to, how to be effective as a coach. Um, to talk about just like the, the iterations of where you started, when you started branching out, kind of working for yourself, and then you know how you kind of got to what you're doing now.
Speaker 2:So when I was in those office jobs, at first it was recruiting and then I got in HR and then I got into people and culture roles and then I was head of people and culture in progressive companies, modern companies, companies where they were at least saying that they were trying to do good by the employees and at some of the places I would say they actually were doing really good by the employees. And in those roles I got to coach people. I got to coach CEOs and the leadership team and that was by far, by far the favorite part of the work I did. And I didn't know that you know you could do this, otherwise outside I was like huh. So I started coaching a little bit on the side and I was coaching creative folks and I had a photographer, a writer, a singer, songwriter, and it's because of my background in music that I attracted creative people. And then I started really posting and sharing a lot on Instagram about habits, how habits were changing my life, about the things that I was doing, about me tracking my habits, how it was making me feel more confident, more creative, and people started asking me for that. They're like whatever the hell you're doing, give me that.
Speaker 2:So when I quit my job and I went all in on coaching, I called myself a habit strategist. I was hesitant to use the word coach, so I called myself a habit strategist. I did that. What I did not expect was 11 of my first 12 clients when I kicked off were going to be all entrepreneurs. I was like, huh, that's interesting. Why is that? Oh yeah, they're a bit rebellious. Go to the beat of their own drum and like solving interesting problems. These, these are my people.
Speaker 2:So I called myself a habits coach for entrepreneurs for a bit. And then other coaches and consultants started asking me how the heck had I done it Like? They were like how did you go from a full-time job to a full roster of clients? How are you getting clients overseas? How are you turning whatever buzz you've created on linkedin around yourself into business? And I used to just do calls where people pick my brain and I answer questions and I gave them some thoughts and in one week I had three of those conversations and two of them asked how do I have another one of these calls?
Speaker 2:and I was like, oh, the universe is giving me another nudge so then I made the switch to what I'm doing now well, I love the uh right.
Speaker 1:It's all the beauty of that is the, the power of uh, experimentation, iteration, right, you never would have known that if you hadn't tried it, you would have never have gotten there in your head. So if you backtracked to, however, whatever that, however long that process was, you know, when you're thinking about coaching, right, you, it would have been almost impossible for you to get there, like in your head, because you didn't even know it existed. So you take that first step because you loved coaching the people in the corporate role. So you're like okay, I'm onto something here, let's tap into that. I think that's what gets lost.
Speaker 1:I know I was guilty of that because I would have all these ideas but I needed in my head to map out the whole journey. I wanted to know how the whole thing was going to work out If I couldn't get there. Then I just didn't even start because I was like well, I can't figure it out and that's the wrong way to go about it. It's the step, it's getting started and tapping into something that you're interested in, that you like feels good, you do not have to have a whole complete business plan written, it's just I like doing this let's do more of it. And then when you start doing it, then you start learning right. Then things open up and I think that's a message that I hope gets out and more people are like you know what? I just really like doing this thing, whatever it is. So I'm just going to do more of it, and it's amazing where that can lead you.
Speaker 2:It's true, and it's the beauty of living now and having a business now and having ideas now, where you can just publish a post and put an idea out there and if it doesn't do, well fine, no one's going to remember it. Move on, and I think back to the first. Well, my first business I had. I used to manufacture physical products like records and CDs, and it was like printing on a physical thing and if there was a mistake, well, it was a lot of money wasted. Or in a previous business, we had a storefront on a well-known street in Toronto and we got a big sign manufactured and installed above the store, like that was.
Speaker 2:That wasn't easy to change, but you can update your LinkedIn banner or update your headline in a nanosecond and it's. You can experiment. So there's a yeah, there's a real opportunity to just pursue what feel good, what feels good, what you're curious about, and just continue to take steps. I I sometimes call it holding your big goals loosely. So the big goal is I want to do work that fills me up, helps the world in some way aligns with the things I enjoy doing, and then you just do little experiments and share ideas and test things out and while continuing to follow that star.
Speaker 1:No, I like that. The whole big goals loosely is a good one, because it's impossible to figure it all out and it doesn't matter how smart you are, how much experience you have, you have no idea how it's going to go. And when you start working with people, it's what I've learned is that they give you so much information, right, even just like two or three clients and have three or four calls with them, and you'll completely change because they're going to give you feedback or you're going to be like oh, this isn't working, but this will work, or whatever, like it's the doing and the learning and it's the activity is where you're gaining the most information, it is not the thinking. And that was the mistake I made and I'm sad, or I'm sure that many people out there are just stuck in their heads. Right, you're just, you have ideas, but you're like I don't know, and will it work? And what will people think? And like none of that matters, it's all irrelevant, just do you, just whatever that is, just do it.
Speaker 2:When you keep talking about you know being not in your head. They're out there, so that's where you need to go share ideas and go try. Stuff is out there in public.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. So talk about. Then you're doing the video. You realized you were liking working with people. That kind of was moving along. At what point did you come to the idea that you wanted to write the book and then how did that kind of? What was that process like?
Speaker 2:And how did that come into play? The book I have to credit to LinkedIn and I have to credit to sharing ideas and stories on there and I'd share stuff and get feedback and people would like certain things and I've been through a whole heck of a lot of stuff. Like, the title of the book is Die Before they Do, from Selling Drugs to Lunch with Jim Carrey, stories of Struggle, near-death Experiences and Creating a Life with Meaning and anytime. I shared some of these crazy stories from my past I got not just good engagement but amazing messages and people thanking me and damning me and how refreshing it is. And my partner said hey, well, what if you wrote a book? What if you made a book that was a collection of stories? So I had her kind of nudging me.
Speaker 2:I saw what was working and then I made a declaration I posted on LinkedIn hey, I'm writing a book, my goal is to write the first draft in 45 days and I really hunkered down and it was easy-ish to write, insofar that four or five of the stories that are in the book I had already kind of written as posts. So I had a starting point and then it was just a matter of mapping out. What are the other stories I want to tell what's the overall story arc stories. I want to tell what's the overall story arc. I hired a book coach to help me get really like to create something that I'm proud of, to also bake in some external accountability beyond just the public declaration. And yeah, it's because of writing on LinkedIn. I did it publicly on LinkedIn and then its success and all these glowing reviews and the feedback that I get to this day so much I can tie back to LinkedIn and building publicly in my community on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:Now, that's amazing. Did you find almost like, was it like a cathartic experience, as you had all those stories that you lived through and then, like writing them down, did you process them differently as you were writing the book? Did that provide like clarification? Or or like, did you have like oh, like all these kind of lightbulb moments?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm smiling and nodding because if I had written the book and not a single person had ever read it, it was one of the most impactful, therapeutic, cathartic experiences of my life. It was just so helpful and it really was a lot of processing and seeing things in. Just so helpful and it really was a lot of processing and seeing things in a different way and just unbelievable. And then, if the only people ever read it were my parents, then that is the biggest gift in the world, because it there's a lot in there they didn't know. It allowed for us to have really deep conversations that we didn't have previously. It just my relationships with both of them are way better on the back end of having written the book and them having read it, and then anything beyond that anyone else reading it, anyone else giving it a review, anyone sending me a message saying how much it meant to them or what they enjoyed or how it changed their perspective or they found it inspired. That's just that's dessert.
Speaker 1:That's a cherry on top now that's amazing, um, and it is interesting, right, the things that you do that your parents don't know about, and then they find out all these years later and then they have to process that, right, they have to think through that. But the fact that it opened up the communication channels because that could have gone the other way too right. Some parents would have been like, oh wow, you did all this and then shun you. I know people that would do that. Oh wow, you did all this and then shun you. I know people that would do that, and I'm glad that for you it went the other way and it actually drew you closer together. Of all the stories in the book, which one do people ask you the most about that have read it, or which one do you think resonates? Or what do you get the most questions on?
Speaker 2:it's interesting because it depends on the person and it depends on what their story is and what they can relate to, because for some of them it is my struggles with alcohol and my wanting to give up alcohol and it being difficult and me finally being on the other end of it.
Speaker 2:For the people, some of the stories about music and being a kid over the 90s, and there's a lot of nostalgia in some of those stories for certain people and for other people it's the stuff around mental health and how close I was to taking my life and I document that in a fair amount of detail, that I had the belt around my neck and was that close to following through. And then the realization, the aha I had at the last minute, which was, if I did this, all I was going to do was take this unbearable pain that I didn't know how to deal with and hand that to my children, and so it's a really raw story. So that resonates with people. So, yeah, it depends on the person, but I think the fact that I bared my soul pretty unfiltered and shared a journey of things that I experienced and what I learned from them, people really appreciate.
Speaker 1:That's really amazing and we talked a little bit before we got started about mental health and just how important it is to talk about. It's getting better, I think, post-covid and a lot more people reaching out to therapists and everybody going through that experience. So I do see more conversation about it, but I still feel like there's a long way to go and people understanding that it's okay to ask for help, it's okay to not be okay, it's okay to struggle and you don't have to do that alone. And it probably started for me when I was about 25, maybe a little later, and then you kind of get into some pretty dark places and you're not really sure how to get out and I never, quite. I never got to the point where you did. My therapist has explained it, which I had not heard of, but there's.
Speaker 1:So there's passively suicidal thoughts and there's active suicidal thoughts, and I I had never heard this, so passive is more like active suicidal thoughts and I I had never heard this, so passive is more like wouldn't matter if I wasn't here. I'm not making a difference. Um, nobody really missed me. Uh, my life is basically, you know, doesn't have meaning and I had a lot of those, but I never got to the point of like the active, which is you know you have a plan you're trying to figure out like you're going to do it. Um, what so? How, how, other than you had those thoughts about you didn't want to leave that to your kids. Like, did you had you reached out to anyone? Did you talk to anybody? Were you trying to process all that yourself? Like, how did you ultimately like get over that kind of mental hurdle and then move past those, that type of thought?
Speaker 2:that was a big unlock for me.
Speaker 2:And then after that, I sought out therapy and I'd been been through therapy in a couple different versions of my life, different periods, and I just I started changing everything and people talk about if you want lasting change to change your environment. And really I quit music and there was like I was walking away from music and going through a divorce at the same time. So I had no idea who I was and then, but getting away from the late nights of music, the not sleeping well, the means I wasn't in these party atmospheres and it's funny if you research and look up suicide, the disturbance of sleep is almost always a pattern, with people who end up going through it like they. They cannot sleep and it really does mess with your, your mental capabilities and your ability to process. So, yes, therapy, changing who I spent time with, started doing yoga, started meditating regularly, started journaling again and just all different facets, different outlets to get out of my head, be surrounded by better people, to have other ways to process and reflect on the things that I was thinking and feeling.
Speaker 1:No, that's really, that's really powerful. How much do you think getting away from the alcohol also helped?
Speaker 2:It helped a lot because even after that, so that I started drinking less, but I would still binge drink because then it was like I was trying to figure out what's next, and then I was going to try and find a job and moving out of my house and seeing the kids a lot less, and it was a lot, but I wasn't living in nightclubs the way I was before, so it wasn't so prevalent.
Speaker 2:But it still mean that if I started to drink I drank until I blacked out, like I'd be at a work event and make a complete fool of myself because I was miserable inside. And it was probably a year later, a year and a half later, that I like finally fully did quit drinking and for sure, like the amount of clarity it's funny, it's like energy, money you get more of that, but the amount of clarity just not these. And there's also, um, like if there's a part of hating yourself, loathing yourself, and I'd been saying for a long time I didn't want to drink, I wish I didn't drink as much, I wish I could quit, didn't. And then, because I was through an evolving state of depression, there'd be these points where I did get blackout drunk and did things that I regretted, or said things that I regretted. So then, guess what? I fucking hated myself more, and it's just, it's a terrible cycle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. It's interesting there's a lot on LinkedIn about I know you have it in your tagline like 10 plus years alcohol-free. There's one woman I don't know her name off the top of my head but she's like an alcohol coach. She actually helps people move away from it. But I've seen certain posts more recently with people that are kind of experimenting with it, like they'll go three months or whatever. And what I've really found interesting is I've yet to read one that talks about that. It didn't make a huge difference positively. I've never seen one be like oh, I stopped alcohol for a month and it sucked. And I list all these negative things that happen. I've never seen one. It's almost every single one is I feel better, I sleep better, my energy is higher, my mood is more stable. So it's really interesting.
Speaker 1:And our culture it's perpetuated so much. Right, you're going to a party, you bring alcohol. You're going to a dinner party bring, bring a bottle of wine. Go to a work event, open bar, um, like it's. It's, it's very, it's so much a part of of the social, of almost all social activities. Right, there's almost some form of alcohol and yet it's so bad. It's so bad for you and it affects you, you know, in so many ways. So and there was a post yesterday somebody talked about what you're just talking about, like the vicious cycle, is like you drink to feel better, which you do, because in that in that moment you do kind of get away from like what you're thinking about right, because it affects your brain, but then you just wake up and feel worse and all your problems are still there, and so now you're right back in the same boat that you were six hours ago, except now you feel worse, and then you just repeat that process and it's like nothing is improving.
Speaker 2:Nothing is improving and I'm glad that you've called it out, because I do feel like there's a shift happening in society, because you listed all those times and places and it's the weather gets nice, cool. Friends are going to a patio oh, the weather is cold. And it's a holiday party oh, it's having a glass of wine, it's a birthday party. It's been everywhere forever and I feel like it's starting to change. I'm starting to hear more of people are enjoying mocktails or restaurants and places are stocking them and it's it's more common that people are saying no thanks. And yeah, there's coaches that are helping people do that.
Speaker 2:You mentioned one and I don't know if it's her, but there's coach Courtney Peters, which is someone who I'm lucky enough to know and she's incredible at what she does and she's gone through the journey and been on the other side and just every aspect of her life is better and the fun thing about her is she didn't hit a rock bottom like I did or so many other people did. She was in a pretty good place, but she had what she called anxiety, where she had an anxiety hangover, and it's that whole thing like OK, I don't I feel worse than yesterday and it's not like my problems are gone away and is this really helping? Yeah, and yeah she, she's helping people in that space. So I I feel like there's hope and if I look at I don't know about your.
Speaker 2:You mentioned you have a teenager. We've got two, and I definitely drank a lot when I was a teenager and our kids don't really drink or care to drink, and nor do I see it prevalent with their friends. So I think teenagers seem to be drinking less or at least the ones that are in my orbit compared to when I was growing up. So I'm hopeful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is good.
Speaker 1:I know I didn't drink in high school. I didn't start drinking until I went to college, um. So it's. You know it's different for everyone, but I mean, I saw it, I was around it, but I didn't really start drinking and I was never like a big drinker. You know, in my 20s and probably early 30s, more so, and then it just became I just drank regularly like one or two drinks, but there were times where it was like I just really looked forward to having like those two drinks at the end of the day, um, pretty consistently. And then you're like why? Why am I doing this? Like? What is like this? What am I? What is this about? Um. So I've kind of gone back and forth with it, um, but I'm from kentucky, I lovebon. I don't know if I could ever fully give it up. I think I might have signed a contract at some point. But I do see, obviously there's much more non-alcoholic availability now that I don't ever remember there's non-alcoholic bourbon, which I didn't know existed until recently. But I know there's.
Speaker 1:Like, the last company I worked with, there were a lot of young people and I remember hearing them talking about what you're kind of saying is like a prevalence of like going to a party and bringing, you know, non-alcoholic, whatever seltzers, um, or just not being like, so, like, needed, like we have to have all these drinks, right, we can have a good time and we can socialize and, no matter what the weather is, and just, you know, be social without the need for alcohol. So that is, you know, that is good, um, but I'm glad that it's, it's, I'm glad that people talk about it. I'm glad to see people you know talk about it and, like I said, it's almost a hundred percent, you know, positively is uh. So I hope other people out there that maybe are struggling with it, you know, see those messages and are like, you know, maybe, maybe this is something that would really, you know, really help me. I want to. I want to talk about the lunch with Jim Carrey, so hey, like how it happened and what it was like. But so he has a quote.
Speaker 1:I remember seeing this a really long time ago. I was I was way too young to kind of understand it. It makes more sense to me now, but it was something to the effect of he wished everybody's wildest dreams would come true, because they would realize that it wouldn't really make any difference, like it wouldn't solve anything. Like, yeah, you might have more money and maybe you don't have to worry about, you know, paying bills and stuff, but if you're miserable before that, you're still gonna be miserable. Like it won't. Everybody thinks that that will solve like everything and it wouldn't. And I was. That was really interesting.
Speaker 1:Like someone with his level of success you know, uh, is really one of the biggest you know comedic actors of all time and you know, certainly through the 90s with you know kind of hit after hit and to hear someone say that, I just remember thinking like, really, like I don't know, I think if all my wildest dreams come true, I think I'd be pretty fucking happy.
Speaker 1:But then as I got older, I always had that in the back of my head. Then it started to make more sense because you're like oh well, if you haven't resolved what's bothering you all that success? It's still going to be bothering you and in fact it probably is now going to be magnified. It's actually probably going to be worse because you're going to be thinking like I should be happier and I should feel better. I've done whatever it is I wanted to do and I still don't, and so it made so much more sense. But I think that I always think that I always remember that. I don't know why I remember it so clearly. So, yeah, I'd love to hear about like your interaction and like how that kind of came to be.
Speaker 2:That's such a great quote. I definitely want to chat about that. And as far as the lunch with Jim Carrey, I'm going to have to bite my tongue and I don't want to talk about it because it gives away too much from the book.
Speaker 2:It's something that I need to leave or else it gives away too much from the book. But on that thought and that quote of his, that really resonates with you and I think it's something that I'm really grateful for the work that I do, because when I was coaching people internally, I was coaching senior leaders and CEOs and people that were high status, highly influential, making really great money, and I heard what was really going on behind closed doors and I was a confidant and heard what's going on. And these days I have clients that are doing half a million dollars a year. I have a past client that's doing $100,000 a month.
Speaker 2:But when I chat with them I hear about what they're really struggling with or the struggles in the relationship, or how there's this thing, this burden, that they're still carrying because they haven't faced it yet. As you said, and you're right, it doesn't go away, it's just there's a feeling of, oh, I should have really sorted this out by now. And then also, if your presence, audience, fame has grown in any way, if there's more people know who you are, then there's a bigger feels like everyone is looking at you and you inside you're like, oh, but inside I still have these fears, these worries, these doubts, these unprocessed dramas and, if anything, it makes it worse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is, it's really fascinating. Yeah, it is, it's really fascinating, and I'm glad that I remember it because I'll be 49 this summer and you start to gain, I think, a little bit more maturity and understanding about what we're doing here. It makes a lot more sense to me now and I feel like if I did it now, I'd be in a pretty good place. But if I did it 15 years ago, like it would have been, I would have been a mess Like I wouldn't. I couldn't process it, I wouldn't know what to do. And that's why I see, when you see these stories of either lottery winners or you know these young athletes you know 18 to 24 years old and signed $50 million contracts Like I, I would have have been in a place like what do I do with it? Do I spend it all? What do I do? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am pretty confident that I wouldn't be here, dug some kind of hole of unhealthy behavior, that would have just like things would have ended. I just I can't imagine any other outcome than that. So it's wild to think that that, yeah, whether it's the 18 year old athlete or someone else where it's like, boom, here you go and you have no way to deal with it. It's the. It's funny, it's like the no like and trust thing. People always say people need to know, like and trust you. You know you want your clients to know like and trust you, which is true, and it's a bit ass backwards because it's pointless unless you know, like and trust yourself yeah really know who you are and, when push comes to shove, what's most important to you?
Speaker 2:uh, like who you are, have forgiven yourself for your past mistakes. You don't like yourself, even if your hair doesn't quite grow like you used to or if you don't fit into the same size jeans you did in college, and trust yourself. Do you keep your word? You say you're going to get up? Do you get up? Are you hitting snooze 10 times? If you say you're going to follow up and finish something, do you follow up and finish it? And if you are lacking that knowing who the heck you are liking, who the heck you are, and actually trusting yourself then anything any kind of fame, attention, attention, amplification whether it's a $50 million contract or 50,000 followers on LinkedIn, like small or big, good luck. No, that's true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and honestly, that was really well said. It's one of the reasons why I started this podcast, because I'd wanted to start a show for a long time. I never really knew, like, what I wanted the message to be. And then when I kind of went through this you know recent odyssey, I guess is the best way to say it of being so unhappy in corporate for so long started creating, started gaining traction, started meeting all these people, kind of opened my eyes to what was possible, really energized me and then now kind of doing it full time and I was talking to my friend, matt Freed, who I hired to help me with nutrition and then kind of turned into a broader relationship.
Speaker 1:But you know I was talking to him about all the masks I used to wear. You know my parents divorced when I was young so I was different around my dad, different around my mom, different around both sides of the family, different around my friends at school on the basketball court. Right, it was all these different versions of me. I started, I was talking to him about it. He was like you bring this up a lot. You talk about the different masks. It's like the third time you brought this up. So he was like maybe that should be, maybe that's your show, and I really got the wheels turning, which is why I ended up calling it the Real you, which is really a nod to the who's, the real me. But I knew they wouldn't let me steal the title or have the John at Whistle baseline, so I don't have that.
Speaker 1:It really got me thinking, like you know, as we get older ideally right you're, it's all growth and evolution and you, hopefully, are getting closer and closer to like the who you really are, the true version of you. You're comfortable in your own skin, you're. You've made peace, like you said, with, with what's happened in the past. Most of that was a lot of. It wasn't even in your control, especially as a kid, um, and it's. We try to just get better. Like we just try to learn, uh and improve, and that's that's kind of the big takeaway. Somebody asked me the other day, like what would be the takeaway of my show or whatever, and I was like just that you're just continue.
Speaker 2:It's a continual evolutionary process to be who you are I love that because then it allows room for experiments, for mistakes, for things that don't go well, and know that, because it's ongoing, there's tomorrow, there's next week there's another attempt you get to continue your evolution and growth and it's on a spectrum versus being good, bad, right or wrong, black or white yeah, and it's not a comparison.
Speaker 1:That's one of the things I love about LinkedIn and it's really been eye-opening for me. I didn't used to root for people. I wasn't necessarily jealous of their success, but I didn't like seeing it and you were talking about, when you had LinkedIn, a lot of people. It was like the virtual resume holder. I was the same way. Promotions or new jobs that was all I was seeing and I never liked seeing it. It never made me feel good Because I was like well, I want a new job, I want a promotion, I don't like my job, I'm not getting one of those. So it wasn't like I felt I wasn't angry or jealous or wanted to be them, but I didn't feel I wasn't rooting for them. And now, once I got on the other side of it and I'm creating and doing what I want, it's completely shifted. Now I root for everybody.
Speaker 1:Like this is it's not a zero sum game, like there's, there's. No, this is not a, there's not a one-on-one game. You win, I lose. Like we can all win. Uh, no matter what that. What that means and so that's been one of the most refreshing things that I've experienced in the last 10 months is now I've gone from like, oh, that's awesome. Like you, you did this. That was great, that's so great. Like I'm so happy for you, I'm genuinely happy for you, like I'm rooting for you. I hope that's exactly what you wanted and if it's not, I hope you find what is like it's. It's so. It's such a better place to operate from.
Speaker 2:Like it's incredible Way, better place to operate from and it's very in strangers, behind circles, or a place to show up and try and get clients to treat it as if you are a storefront on a downtown strip and imagine a cute little town and you've got a little storefront. And the difference between if you don't interact with anyone, you don't celebrate anyone, you don't whatever, or you do send referrals to the tailors across the street. You do pop into the coffee shop regularly next door when the other store is celebrating their five-year anniversary, that you are celebrating them too. When the bia puts on an event you're giving a prize, like you are an active member of the community and it's the same thing on linkedin.
Speaker 2:just because it's digital and it's international, it doesn't mean it's any different, and so I'm not. I'm happy to hear this, this change that you're having, and I'm not surprised by it, because, yeah, now you're, you're part of a community and you're celebrating other people, which just means it's creating more of this goodwill, energy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's really. That's a great analogy with the digital storefront versus what you would do if we were all in the same block setting up shops. It can only help when other people are doing well. It lifts you up and when you're doing well, you can lift other people up, whether it's financially supporting or referring or talking about. It just feels good, frankly. It just feels good to want people to do well and hopefully they do the same for you. What have you noticed in coaching switching to the coaching coaches and, on that, rooting for other people? What have you seen as the biggest struggle or challenge with the coaches you work with and what has been eye-opening in terms of how you've helped them overcome those blocks?
Speaker 2:It's interesting if I look at the evolution of people I've worked with, because before, when I started out, it was more people that are really early in their journey, so there was a lot more of self-sabotage who am I to kind of do this? And kind of confidence to show up. And now I'm not working with people that are as early in in their journey. There's a few, and in my community, which is the most accessible way to work with me, there's definitely some people there, but it's less about that and more about maybe they're already showing up and they want to show up more as themselves. They want to express themselves a bit more fully.
Speaker 2:And if I think about okay, so awesome thing about LinkedIn, we're over a billion people. Crazy thing about LinkedIn, we're over a billion people. Crazy thing about LinkedIn. If you search things like mindset coach a million people come up. Wellness coach 2 million people. Leadership coach 4 million people. So then how the heck do you stand out there?
Speaker 2:And it is about it's very aligned with the point of your podcast, which is about just being more genuinely you and knowing that there can be two people with very similar skill sets who would be able to help someone the exact same amount. But one of them shows that they like to go selfie dancing on the weekend and they share pictures of their cute pup and you feel like you can connect with them as a human, versus the other person is just button up all the time and all serious and whatever, and it's hard to connect with that human. Someone would choose to work with me because of my funny Canadian accent. I've heard people say that they're like yeah, I've never. Someone said to me I've never met a Canadian or an Australian that I didn't like and you're, you're, I like your Canadian accent, Like it's just, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Are the hooks that people connect to? I have people in my community right now and they said I started paying attention to your content when I saw you did that ultra run last year because I did a crazy run in the mountains. So it was like that has nothing to do with coaching, that has nothing to do with my ability to help you grow your impact and grow your business. So you, showing the parts of you that make you human, make the biggest difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting. I was just talking to somebody yesterday about we were talking about the power of storytelling, because I think it's one of the biggest missing pieces that I see in a lot of content. You know, I spend a lot of time on the platform. I look at a lot of different content, um, and I think that's by far the biggest missing piece and the content that I absorb that doesn't hit. It's just so dry, dry, it's just, it's factual, it's educational, it isn't. It isn't even bad content, um, but there's just nothing. Like you said, there's nothing. You're not drawn to it. There's no connection, it's just.
Speaker 1:It's just a text post of whatever, and I don't know if it's we were trying to decide. Is it? Do people not think in in story, like? Do they not think in in story? Like, do they not think in story? Like I could write that post, but I'll tell a story to tie it together. Are they not able to make the connection? Do they just not know how to tell stories? Um, I don't know, it's maybe a combination of all of it and I think I think that's why you've had your success, because you seem like a natural storyteller. Um, you have interesting stories, your life is interesting, and I think that also is a big difference when you're trying to coach people. It's like the way to be interesting is to have an interesting life, like do fun shit, do different shit and then talk about it right, because you're going to be learning and then you're sharing that, and I think that's probably a big part of your appeal.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Well, there's two parts of that that's making me smile really big One. In my community there's a saying and I have it on a sticker here branded sticker in the socks I send all my clients.
Speaker 2:It says do bullshit yeah and essentially it's do bullshit that scares you. Learn and grow as you go along, share what you're learning so you can help others repeat. So I think that is definitely true and I also think, instead of like doing, because the reason for that is people want someone who's never hired a coach before to hire a coach, they want someone to take bold steps, they want their clients to do something that scares them essentially and get another comfort zone, all sorts of stuff. But you're not doing it yourself Really and I. But I do think that when it comes to stories, it doesn't have to be here's how I climb Mount Kilimanjaro, or whatever, but like making it relatable, because for me, I joke in some of my slides. I did a couple of workshops this week and I have what?
Speaker 2:I call flat flat Fred and it's a stickman. I have a stickman figure and I call him flat fred, and flat fred doesn't ever share anything that allows us to connect with them, doesn't say anything that anyone could possibly disagree with, doesn't share any kind of opinion and just ensures that, like I'm here and no one could say I'm wrong or disagree or that they don't like it. But it's also so damn ignorable and it doesn't have to be a crazy thing. But don't be afraid to show your sense of humor. Don't be afraid to show what the stuff you love doing on a Saturday morning when you have time for yourself, if you really enjoy being a parent. Talk about what you're learning from that and just bring some damn humanity to it. There's stories in the little daily moments and I think that's what brings us together. Yes, we love a big, crazy, heroic, bold story and I have plenty and I appreciate you saying that. But also the little moments are plenty good if you are showing some humanity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, and I think that's the content I'm drawn to the most now, especially as I'm paying more attention. Is what you're talking about Like it's a, it's a feeling and something happened to you and that's how I felt and that's kind of what I took away from it. This is how you can apply it to your life or business, right. So it's the same. It's still educational. You're still teaching.
Speaker 1:You're doing it in a way that what you're talking about which is like you can see yourself in that story or you've been through it, and then you're like, oh, yeah, okay, that resonates with me instead of just like, yeah, the factual, the thing about the run I'd like to know more about the ultra run, but I do think it is applicable in terms of how you can help people, because in order to do that, it takes a certain amount of grit, perseverance, planning, training, overcoming injury, obstacle, weather.
Speaker 1:There's a lot. I was just talking to somebody about this other day about how much you can take from race training and I've done a fair amount of it and played sports all my life. It's like if you're reading that someone's doing that and then you're thinking about them helping you, there's a pretty good chance they're going to be pretty helpful because to put their body and mind through whatever it takes to do an ultra run or a marathon or whatever like there's a certain type of person that it takes to do an ultra run or a marathon or whatever like there's a certain type of person that it takes to do it.
Speaker 2:And then you can be pretty confident they're probably going to be able to help you because of what their willingness to go to put themselves through, usually voluntarily and with no like there's no reward, right, it's not like you're doing it for anything other than a medal and like a t-shirt I love you saying that and I think it's true and I've also seen it from the other aspect too, where clients of mine that have are athletic uh, are like competing cross training, have done ultra races and are serious about their health and some kind of sport or physicality thing, are really great clients to have because they have determination, they know how to create good habits, as you said, grit, resilience, and they'll show up, they'll do the freaking work. So, yeah, I think you're right as far as seeking out a coach to help you and and also I've seen it the other side too, that as far as from clients that will get good results because they'll do the work yeah, there was a company I don't know if they're still going.
Speaker 1:Several years ago they were out in Colorado, which is the triathlon capital of the world, because of the altitude, but he only hired triathletes and he openly said that he was like my company I only hire triathletes and it's because he knew that he was getting dedicated, committed, hardworking people that he didn't have to worry about. There was no motivation, there was no we're going to show up or not do their work. He was like if you're willing to go through a triathlon and swim, bike and run and train and everything that goes into it, you're my kind of person. And it was a small company so they could get away with it. But I always thought that was really interesting where he was just like yeah, if you can do triathlons, you can work for me. I know you can.
Speaker 1:And it's the same kind of thing Like if you hire a client and you know they have a racing background, like they're pretty good, very high chance, they're going to be willing, committed, they'll listen, they will apply, and then you know, whatever. So it is good. So were you a runner before or did you? How did you get into, like, an ultra run? Those are a little different than your standard runs.
Speaker 2:I'm just laughing because there's a point in time. There's been two points in my life where I ran semi regularly and by that I meant I would go run a 5k or go do kind of a 10k and that was like a 10k was a bit of a push for me. I've never done a half marathon, I've never done a marathon, and they're like blips in my past where I did this for like six months or like 14 months and it had been a long time. And there were some clients of mine that I was helping them build out their offer and they work with entrepreneurial men and there's this physical challenge piece of what they like doing and a lot of them are runners and I helped them create all this. And then it was awesome, it was really inspiring to see what we co-created. And then one of them turned me, said well, so you're going to join us on this thing we're doing? And they kind of pitched me and I was excited by it.
Speaker 2:So I said yes, having not really ran much and like I trained some leading up to it and if I hadn't had my habit of going to kickboxing regularly, I think I might have died. And the goal was there was 10 of us there, 12 of us there I should know the exact number and we each had to run 40 miles in 48 hours and it was in the mountains in colorado and it was insane. I probably walked way more than I would have liked to said that I ended up walking, but I ended up doing 48 miles in 48 hours. Okay, and it was a real test, like at one point I thought both my knees were bust and my ankle was sore and I was limping. I was limping like crazy and some of the guys that did it with just laughed of seeing me limp up the hill, but I persevered and I did it. Just laughter seeing me limp up the hill, but I persevered and I did it.
Speaker 2:And the emotional like release like I cried when I finished that last mile, incredible magic, just to realize that I could do it and I was able to push myself to that kind of limit yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:It's that it's. It's more mental than physical. Um, even even whether you've trained a lot or not, it's more mental than physical. Whether you've trained a lot or not, it's just your brain is going to tell you to quit. It's going to try to shut you down at that first sign of injury or just whatever all the things. So it's really just overcoming the logical brain, tapping into your intuition and just being like I'm just going to keep going, like whatever, if I have to walk, if I have to crawl, like whatever, move, move, move forward. And it's a great metaphor for life, right? Because you know things are going to get hard and you're going to want to quit, no matter what it is. Uh, it's never going to be a linear, linearly smooth process and you know it's just it's digging in, it's digging deeper, and that you find what you're made of. So I think it's super applicable and I love that you did it. I'm doing.
Speaker 1:I did my first obstacle course race in October. I did the shortest Spartan distance and in July I'm going to go to the second. So it's a 10K trail run and then 25 obstacles, I think, and I signed my kids up so my kids wanted to do it the last time and I didn't do it and they were really upset with me. So this time I'm like all right, I signed you guys up for the one mile kids challenge I don't know how many obstacles, I don't know what it's going to be and so my youngest is 10. And so he's like I'm going to start doing pushups and pull-ups and sit-ups every day to get ready for it.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it so much. Our 15 year old has been coming to kickboxing with me and then since then, is in the habit of doing crunches and squats and push-ups in their room. And it's amazing. It really is. We are modeling the behavior and it's easy for them to follow suit when we're doing things Like talk about doing like bold stuff to inspire clients. If you're a parent, it applies the same way too, and I'd say you know one could make a good argument. That's maybe more important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no for sure, and it is like you said it is they'll do what they see. So you know, hopefully, you know they're pretty active kids, so hopefully they'll keep that. You know, keep that going. As we kind of finish up here, I want to get into music because I know we're both big music fans.
Speaker 1:Obviously you did it in the DJ capacity, so I was born in 75. So I kind of grew up classic rock, 80s uh, michael jackson thriller was my first album. Uh, bon jovi's new jersey was my first cassette tape, um, and I think my first cd was the metallica black album, not 100 on that. But if it wasn't, first it was close um, and then I didn't. So I always was around music. My mom played uh like piano, organ, like in the church. My dad was a good musician, played in bands.
Speaker 1:In high school I didn't get any of that ability, so I can't, I can't sing or play uh like they can. It completely skipped me, but I really did love it. And then when I went away to college, then I really got into the grunge scene. So it was all Pearl jam and sound garden, a little bit of much stunt. Double pilots were big um, and then I just kind of really just embraced new music and it's probably one of my proudest talking about parenting is my kids also love music. So they get the pop music so like 2000s and forward, which I'm not a fan of in my wife's car and they get rock, classic and and current rock in my car. So it's actually ends up working for them because they know, uh, they know a lot of different genres, simply because we have different tastes. Um, anyway, so I love music and I can listen to rock music you know all day, every day. Uh, just curious to hear kind of your music journey and um, more about that flavor, flavor, video flavor flavor video.
Speaker 2:I'm glad that I I re-shared it and they kept ringing it up. My mom loved music and played a lot of music around the house and it was a lot of disco and funk and I've got memories of her playing it on the old brown stereo system we had and I've got early memories of me dancing on the picnic table to entertain our drunk neighbors and dancing to michael jackson like talking about that thriller album like I. I remember I remember remember the t-shirt I was wearing, I remember the sun setting and I remember really vivid memories the babysitter I had when I was in grade 3 and 4, 3, 4, and 5, had a little mixing panel like a Radio Shack brown mixer and he made me mixtapes and it had Madonna, it had Beastieie boys, it had a real mix of stuff into it. And then going to england and electronic music was big and we lived in in the uk for a year and a half like 89 90, and house music was huge and it wasn't that big here and it exposed me to this whole other world.
Speaker 2:So it's been kind of this, this constant, and music was my outlet to get me away from small town life where I grew up on army bases, where I was getting in trouble with the cops, where my friends were constantly getting arrested, where it felt like the only options were to either get a job in the factory in the neighboring town, join the army, like our parents, or a life of crime. Like those really felt like like the paths and the options, and music and me starting to DJ and me learning to make music and then the traveling got. It saved me, it got me away from that.
Speaker 1:That's really, that's really fascinating. What so were you DJing? Was it mostly like the club house type music, techno type music? Did it evolve into other stuff, or was it? Did you pretty much that, was you kind of stayed with that?
Speaker 2:when I started out as more eclectic and it was like I was djing at teen dances, so it was hip-hop, like old school hip-hop. It was, um, slow jams for dancing, it was maybe some rock tunes or whatever. It was a little bit of electronic stuff but it was really eclectic. But then as I got into the world of clubs and raves and electronic music, it was all electronic in-house stuff. That's where I and I really carved a path in that world nice.
Speaker 1:We were driving home I was last week and we had typical rock on my spotify and my oldest son was like I want to listen to rap. And I was like, all right, you want to listen to rap, I'm gonna put, I'm gonna put some old school, real rap on. He was like no, no, I want drake. I was like no, no, no, no. So I found I went to, uh, uh, komo d's I go to work and, uh, I put that on. He was like this is terrible, like what this is, what is even is this? And I was like this is actual rap, this is actual music, it's actual talent. He was like put drake on. I'm like I will not put a drake song on.
Speaker 1:And we went back and forth. And then I went to, uh, ice t's, uh, new jack hustler, which I hadn't heard in like 20 years. It's always one of my favorites. He was just like I, just he was just shaking his head. He was like just, let me know what you're gonna put, just let me know what you're gonna put kendrick lamar on or something, um, but uh, yeah so it was funny yeah, it was funny, but yeah, so you did the talk about the flavor of flavor.
Speaker 1:So you, you guys, you and a friend, I think yeah, you did the you like pay the celebrity to do like the video? It was hilarious.
Speaker 2:You posted it uh not that long ago so doug lawson, who is very active on linkedin friends. He was a client of mine for a bit and then, after we had worked together, we put on on a workshop a paid workshop and a little six week program on the back end of it and he grew up with music being really important to him too, and hard rock and public enemy. We're both, like have this intersection where public enemy is damn cool and if we think about the people that we love working with it, they would think like that's unique and interesting too. So we went on cameo and paid flavor flavor some money and the video was hilarious because he doesn't know how to say linkedin and he says link the in and he talks about I just it's hearing flavor flavor talk about linkedin, talking about organic traffic, talk about this, and it's just it's your like. You is this made up? Is this ai like? Am I really listening?
Speaker 1:to flavor play, talk this shit and it's funny, it's so good, it was awesome. I loved it. The organic traffic, the organic well, that just killed me. Like I just I thought that was just the funniest like to hear. To hear him talk about organic traffic, I might have laughed out loud. I was like that was just, that was too much. So that was really well played. I know you said you repost that, like you know, every so often and yeah, that's, I think you could. I think you could spend that one once a month, it wouldn't get old. Um, that's so good, um, and then you, you had a recent story where you told the, which I didn't even know, know, and I like Guns N' Roses but I didn't realize, like how much they were struggling and couldn't get traction and had the Welcome to the Jungle video but like wouldn't get played and MTV was still really big then. And you told that story about, you know, kind of the behind the scenes of getting that video played, kind of like middle of night, and then it kind of exploded.
Speaker 2:And then you know, that was kind of the beginning, beginning of the end for them, uh, of growth. That's wild, that story too, because the first time I heard it I thought that can't be true. And anyone who's in a similar age to us the guns and roses is a really big thing and it's insane how popular and like world-renowned they are and how many amazing songs they put out and the fact that they were this close to essentially not existing or not existing to the level that we knew them. And two, they had sold 200 000 copies of their album and it was considered a flop and the label was going to drop them. Like this is to have that many albums sold. And they were still like no, that's not good enough, we're not, we're not making enough money on this.
Speaker 2:And it was a favor. Yeah, david, david Geffen, very famous influential music executive, label owner, called in a favor to someone at MTV. He's like look, do me a solid, you don't even need to announce it, don't even just play it. And they played it in the middle of the night, like 3 or 4 am, and that was it. They played the video once the request lines blew up. And it's interesting to think now, compared to now, you needed someone to put you on, you needed MTV to say you're worth it. There was real gatekeepers, versus now we can record a clip from this and share it in 10 minutes. We could stream this live. We can pull our phone out and record something and, short of you being really offensive or racist or whatever, like you can say pretty much anything and no one can stop you yeah, no, it is.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's amazing the way it's switched. What I was, uh, took away from it a lot of things, but just the fact that, like, how many talented people never get discovered? Right, like that album, appetite, destruction, you could argue. I think I put this in your, in the comments. Right? You could argue, it has four of the best 15 or 20 rock songs of all time. Right, um, sweet child of mine, uh, welcome jungle paradise city. Uh, mr brownstone night train. I mean, that's just, it's incredible, um, and the fact that they were that close to to not nobody even ever hearing them, and just, you're like you couldn't even imagine a world, you couldn't imagine a rock music world where guns and roses doesn't exist, right, um, and they were that bridge, they were the real bridge from, like, the hair bands, the poisons and the rats and the motley crews and the warrants of the world, right to the grunge in my this is my opinion. So you had the early 80s, mid 80s of the big hair and the all of that, and several years later, the early 90s, right, you get nirvana, pearl jam, all that guns and roses.
Speaker 1:To me was that three-year bridge. It was. It was heavier, uh, it was harder, it wasn't as the. The lyrics were a little bit more in depth than just the, the you know nothing but a good time and that song is great. I'm not knocking, I'm just saying like lyrically in depth Guns N' Roses was. To me, was that bridge. That was an 87, 88, 89 rock bridge that got us from hair bands to grunge and then you know hair bands to grunge and then you know that was kind of the end of the hair bands, so it's like they all that almost didn't happen, like that's insane.
Speaker 2:What's wild to me is when you started listing all the songs on that album, I got goosebumps because it's incredible how many outstanding, and then the album went on to be the best-selling debut album of all time oh, it's, it's oh yeah, and you're right, I never thought of it as a bridge. It definitely is a bridge. I, I think you're, I think you're correct. I second that. No, it's, it's true, there's a void otherwise right, yeah, correct, right it's.
Speaker 1:And then maybe the grunge still happens because those were obviously super talented, great bands, and maybe it all happens the way it is. But I don't know. It would have been harder, I think, to go from the, because the, the hair bands for the most part, like it was just a, it was just a poppy, it was a poppy sound, poison was a poppy sound, molly crew, a little heavier, uh, but you know, like cherry pie warrant, that's just a radio pop song, right, uh, with a little heavier guitar. No, no depth at all. And then grunge was just so much more. You know the lyrics and just uh, there's just so much more going on.
Speaker 1:You know psychologically and mentally and those in that music, but you just wonder, like, like it wasn't going to be banjo-y, right, it wasn't them. I don't know, gnr was that, because they, they almost even now, like that it's very hard to define them. Like their sound and the rock is just such a fusion of the big classic rock with the edge and just the crazy front man and Slash, I don't know, they hold such a special spot in music history, it's so wild to think about them. Nope, they're not good, those guys aren't good enough, next what? What are we even doing here? Yeah?
Speaker 2:a fun way to end things off yeah, this is great.
Speaker 1:Um, uh, we could talk for hours. I could talk for hours on music. We could do a whole music podcast. Um, talk about that some other time. But uh, super, super grateful for you to come on share your story. Uh, I've learned a lot. Uh, it's been great uh, getting to know you, uh, seeing your content. Uh, again thanks to zanya for bringing us together. Um, before we wrap up any final thoughts and then uh tell people if they're interested in learning more how to get your book, yeah, how to work with you, like all that kind of stuff as far as final thoughts, I think, given some of the things that we've talked about in the theme of the podcast, is just seeing content as a bridge for you to figure out what's next.
Speaker 2:Seeing content as a form of expression, seeing content as a way for you to create your own path, because we can get into the strategies and the tactics and what works and the psychology and all sorts of stuff. But if I think back to what you were saying earlier, david, around getting out of your head and testing ideas in public, it's never been easier to test ideas in public and if you explore it with this creative curiosity, then it can be really fun. And then if it's fun, then you're more likely to keep doing it, you're more likely to have success. It's just there's so many upsides to it. That's maybe the final thought I want to end on. That ties together a few themes we talked about. And then, sorry, did you say where can people find out more? Is that what?
Speaker 1:you said, yeah, how they can find you LinkedIn website, how to get your book, all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:LinkedIn is my main online hang. So, rob, with two B's R-O-B-B-G-I-L-B-E-A-R I post there almost daily and I'm very active there. I moonlight a little bit on Instagram and I'll share a little bit of my stories on there. Stuff auto publishes there, but I don't hang out there as much. And then I publish a weekly newsletter called the weekly growth habit, where I give a lot of practical strategies and tips so how you can grow your impact and grow your business. You can find that and anything else at growthhabitorg.
Speaker 1:Love it. Super appreciative of you, your time, energy and thoughts. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, David.