The Real You
1:1 Long-Form Interviews with Interesting People Doing Amazing Things
In-depth discussion of people's journeys to tap into their full potential and find ways to be the truest version of themselves.
The Real You
Creating Meaningful Work: EP 15: Jen Sellar’s Journey to Authentic Leadership
Unlock the secrets of personal growth and leadership with our special guest, Jen Sellar. Learn how she transitioned from a life rooted in a Catholic, academic upbringing to becoming a beacon of inspiration in the corporate world. Jen's journey from physical education to supporting her partner's medical residency across Canada offers a unique perspective on resilience and adaptability.
Her insights into the flaws of the corporate environment and innovative ideas for improvement will resonate with anyone seeking to navigate their career challenges more effectively.
Ever felt trapped in an unfulfilling job? Explore our candid discussion on the emotional toll of toxic leadership and the courage it takes to seek better opportunities. Drawing from my own professional experiences, we walk through the trials and tribulations of navigating demanding roles, the unexpected shift to considering human resources, and the eventual plunge into commercial insurance. Each career move, marked by lessons in self-discovery and resilience, is a testament to the importance of finding meaning in one's work and life.
Finally, we touch on the transformative power of overcoming self-criticism and embracing personal growth. Jen and I share the significance of focusing on effort and learning rather than past mistakes. From fostering leadership within organizations to creating safe spaces where people can be authentic, this episode is packed with actionable insights and heartfelt anecdotes.
Whether you're looking to unlock your potential or inspire others to do the same, our conversation offers valuable takeaways for making meaningful changes in both personal and professional realms.
linkedin.com/in/jen-sellar
Welcome to the Real you Podcast. I'm your host, david Young, and this is episode number 15. This podcast discusses tapping into your full potential and finding ways to be the truest version of yourself. Today, I'm joined by Jen Seller, a leadership expert, personal growth advocate and soon-to-be published author. We will discuss her journey, why the corporate world is so broken, how she uses LinkedIn and the power of finding time for yourself. Jen, thank you so much for making time for me and being on the show today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, David. I appreciate it. I'm excited to chat with you today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. You and I recently met. I started seeing your content, I think about a month ago on LinkedIn. That's how we kind of found each other and then last week connected and we had a very nice discussion which was a lot about what we'll talk about today your background and just kind of. We share a very, I think, common philosophy on the corporate world and its flaws and you have a lot of good ideas on how to fix it. So I think we'll start there. If you could just kind of start with just like your kind of background and kind of how you got to where you are now and then kind of your corporate experience, which I know we all have our own.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Mine is certainly not a very direct journey. So rein me in if I go off on a tangent, because I feel like the hardest part for me is always talking about my story, where I came from and how I got to where I am, because I've done so many different things in my life and.
Speaker 2:I've had these crazy adventures. I've gone on as far as my career and just things happening in my life that have caused these pivots and I won't say forced me to, I like to say gave me the opportunity to try something new and go different directions. So basically my story is I grew up in a really Catholic, family, religious, faith-based, academic world. So coming out of high school I went straight into university and got my bachelor of physical education degree, which is now called kinesiology to make it sound way more scientific and important. So I did a degree in that and then about 10 years I spent kind of tapping out every possible avenue and nook and cranny that I could do in that field, which I really enjoyed.
Speaker 2:That was kind of my biggest passion coming out of high school, I'd say, is just that health and wellness, fitness stuff. I was always an athlete and played on all the school teams and just loved that and got along with my coaches and I coached while I was in school as well. So that always kind of drove me into that fitness industry when I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I truly had no idea. The one thing I did know is that I wanted to have kids and be a mom. So that was the only thing and I knew that from the time. I swear I was probably four years old when I knew that and it's crazy when I think about it, but perhaps that's why I always felt kind of like an old soul and like I don't really fit into this world the way it runs normally.
Speaker 2:So then, post the whole phys ed thing, I ended up actually getting an awesome job at a college, a post-secondary college, where I got to have a really cool role just working in their campus sport and wellness department and helping to instruct their personal fitness trainer program they had at the time. So again, more leadership, more education, training kind of stuff which I just it just I eat it up and it happens really naturally for me. So I really enjoyed that. And then from there I ended up moving to a different city with my partner at the time and ended up actually moving all the way across the country. After about two years in this other city just doing odd jobs of of again some personal training and other things. He was going off to do his medical residency out in St John's, newfoundland and I know you're from the States so I don't know, if you know where that is.
Speaker 1:I don't have it. My Canada geography is not great. The only thing I really know is that Vancouver is very far west and it's close to Seattle.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:Toronto is very far east and it's close to, like, new York and Michigan and like that, and that's about it for me.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, so I'll let you know. You're absolutely right about Vancouver, and that's where I lived. Currently is like a few hours just east of Vancouver, so I'm on the west coast of Canada and then Toronto, which is so far east in your brain. Now it's actually more central to us in.
Speaker 2:Canada, so I actually went to completely the opposite side of Canada, which was a heck of a lot further, so just to give you some perspective of that. And then I kind of grew up in between Vancouver and Toronto for most of my life. So yeah, for those of you who are not Canada geography friendly, and I would be just the same if I was trying to figure out the states, so don't worry about that. But yeah, so I went out there in a total foreign place and it wasn't just moving to a different city, it was like going back in time. I went there with this you know bachelor of physical education degree and all of my experience in that, and went to talk to the you know a few different organizations there about potential work While my partner was doing his medical residency and they were literally.
Speaker 2:I felt like whoa like they had never heard of personal training before, oh wow, and they were kind of giving me this well, you could, you know, bring in some people and we could figure it out. You could use our gym. But I, yeah, we don't really do that here, and I was do that here. And to make it even funnier, they have you know how our time zones shift by hourly segments. They have the additional half hour out there.
Speaker 1:No way.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:This is quite a funny little I will explains a lot of things when you live there for five years and figure out that extra half hour is truly special and I'm totally joking, they're great people out there. It's just a totally different vibe, but they're super friendly and, yeah, it was a great experience. But you are literally, you know, just on the other side of the country and so far from anything that.
Speaker 1:How long ago, Like how long ago was this?
Speaker 2:That would have been in about 2000-ish.
Speaker 1:So 25 years ago, this place in Canada had never heard of personal training. That is wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I graduated university in 98 and that would have been a couple years after my first job in the city I graduated. So, yeah, that was quite an experience. Eventually, I ended up actually teaching phys ed to kids at a K-9 private school, so that was a really awesome experience. And again more leadership, more teaching. I didn't have my teaching degree and the way it works in the world of physical education bachelor degrees is do not ever, ever try to teach anything to anyone about that. Four years and all the money you spent learning all those things to become an expert. Do not do that unless you go get an education degree as well. So spend more money, take more time to learn how to be the teacher, but don't share that with anyone in a school because you probably don't know what you're talking about. Right? Those math teachers know more than you do about physical education because they get to teach it all the time. So it's really kind of a funny industry and I found that out in a hurry and I kind of went oh my gosh, what did I do to myself? Like this is not going to be a career. So I had my first daughter out in St John's, newfoundland, and moved out of there when she was about 15 months old. Unfortunately, my dad had come, contracted cancer and was not doing well, so it was near the end of my partner's um residency and we got married while we were out there as well, um, and we had to come back to be with my dad and just I ended up kind of helping my mom care, give for him for the last couple months of his life. My partner came out when he finished and, um, my 15 month old was there just trying to, you know, do what she does at 15 months old while I was going through all this. So it was. It was not a great reason to come back to the opposite side of the country again, but that was that.
Speaker 2:And then I was a stay at home mom for several years. My girls were three and five when I got divorced, which was after my mom passed away as well. So I went through a lot of loss, a lot of family stuff going on. We'd never had anything. No one had ever passed away, no one ever got sick and, I swear to God, in this less than 10 year period three of my four grandparents died, both my parents, a 17 year old cousin of, with leukemia. Uh, my father or sorry, my grandfather-in-law took his own life, as did a really good friend of my husband's, like it was just. I was like what is going on? I've heard that this happens to people, but holy moly.
Speaker 2:So, lo and behold, my husband and I didn't make it through all that and ended up going through a pretty nasty divorce for many years. But that kind of pushed me to okay, well, I've got these two little munchkins and I got to get back into being self-sufficient and starting into a career again. So I did some part-time coaching, gymnastics and otherwise, just while they were kind of in their preschool and early stage school. And then I got into real estate, which was recommended by a friend of mine who was also a single mom and had me sold that it was going to be the perfect fit. You know you can work whenever you want. You can still take care of your kids, because I had no family in town.
Speaker 1:You work nights and weekends. That's what they don't tell you about real estate.
Speaker 2:You pretty much work 24 seven, just for any of you considering it. And I actually, when people ask me about real estate, like I loved so much about real estate, I love building those connections with people. I loved negotiating, which I didn't know about myself really at the time. I hated the idea of being a salesperson. Like this is the crazy thing about me Never, ever, will I ever be a slimy salesperson, right, like that was wherever that got built in my brain. But I loved people and I I naturally built relationships and connections like my entire life. So so people convince me again well, that's all it is, you don't need to be like weird salesy, okay, great, so that was awesome for a couple of years.
Speaker 2:But uh, within five years of of getting out there and really trying to run my own business, um, and making something of it and missing out on tons of, tons of precious time with my daughters, I burnt out to a crisp, like health problems that were screaming at me that I was ignoring that. Finally I had to go. Oh, my gosh, like this is serious. So that was the end of that career. So what next? Um, so I couldn't let go of that because I had met some awesome people and I had made some great connections, and so I thought, well, I'll stay in the industry, but I'll just kind of dial it back.
Speaker 2:So I ended up working with a developer, a big one, out where I am, just uh, east of Vancouver, here in the Okanagan, and, um, they're one of the biggest ones in our area and they were doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And so I met with one of the top level VPs there and they had said you know what? We could totally use someone like you. I told them everything. I was hoping for my ideal position, everything, but they were going to create something for me which was like wow, this is amazing and you're going to be in head office. The only catch is we don't have anything available for a few months. So, if you don't mind, we know you've done the sales, real estate. How would you like to do a part-time thing in this? You know sales center, for I thought, perfect, cause I'm still recovering from burnout. Let's slowly just get back into this and we'll negotiate this role. Well, in came COVID, literally two months before this would have started.
Speaker 2:Maybe not even two months, because we were negotiating the position at the time and they went on a hiring freeze and because I was brand new I got the boot. So that fell apart.
Speaker 2:So then next was another developer still wasn't quite ready to let go holding on yeah, hanging on by a thread, and so this guy, uh, and this company, it was a little boutique one and he was kind of someone that we knew through my partner, my new partner now, who I'm with and been with for almost seven years. He is a realtor, that's how we met and, um, he's been doing it for 20 years and he knows everybody here, so he's not from here but he knows everybody here and he's like oh, this guy, he's got his own little thing, maybe he needs someone. So we happened to bump into them somewhere, start talking and he was super interested in my story and experience and they happened to need someone. Long story short of that is I went through about four interviews, is I went through about four interviews. It was the most entertaining process of an interview.
Speaker 2:Like I, I was told at one point by a woman who I mean at this point I would have been maybe in my early forties, um, and she's early thirties and she says to me well, you know, you seem like a real grownup, so I think you could really handle this position and it was for, like, director of sales and customer experience, right, like in this little and I I'm sure I did that. You know, when dogs are like, oh, like what, what is she talking about? Like, wow, okay. Anyways, I said no to these people, probably three times and because it just didn't feel right. I was getting all the gut stuff Like I don't know, and it sounded like way too much of a position for one person. I'd come from another huge developer where there would have been probably four people doing this one job and I knew I couldn't put myself in a position to burn out again because I've already been there, done that. You're supposed to learn from these things, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So eventually the VP or the president, calls me and he's like convinces me to take this role and it's going to be totally good and these people are thriving and you know what You're. You're not going to be taking on all this, you're just going to be involved in some of these things because we really value our people's opinions and, like all the things you want to hear. He told me everything I wanted to hear. So I was there for a short bit literally the shortest stint I think I've ever had anywhere and I like stood my ground and within a month I was like this isn't working. Your expectations are completely unrealistic. This is the president show and we all have to stop and listen every time he speaks and he's in and out of the office and it was just like the worst experience and you and I've talked about leadership.
Speaker 2:This was poor leadership at its finest and full of ego and full of all the stuff that just doesn't make for a good experience. So that ended. And then I had um, I had taken some uh, human resources consulting certificates along the way so I was like, maybe that's where I should go, maybe that that's where I can make the change, make the difference in people culture. And then you realize it's a lot about policies, procedures and all the stuff going on in the world that you'd have to deal with post COVID. Like whoa, not a good time. So thank God I had a good friend who talked me out of that and then he talked me into trying commercial insurance and I tried commercial insurance.
Speaker 2:I did the first and second level courses in that and it was all about like, oh, it's going to be just like real estate. You love real estate, you're good with people, you make connections, this is going to be great, you're going to, you're going to kill it, and there's lots of opportunity because there's tons of people retiring soon. You can get their books of business, like it was just going to be the dream. But unfortunately again, over-promise, under-deliver. You know, I get in there and I got slotted with an amazing team. They were fantastic. I learned some great stuff, but I quickly realized I was just filling a spot of more admin kind of entry level stuff, because that's where their gaps were. And then I was asked to take on more really odd kind of things that they just had no one else to do because they knew I would do a good job. And then I went onto the and it was just this snowball rolling the wrong direction. It was like this isn't taking me where, where we thought I was going. So that was unfortunate.
Speaker 2:And I actually went to them. We were in the state of a merge with another huge company and I I was like this is my opportunity. I'm going to go to HR and I'm going to say, hey, this isn't working. I think we can all see that this is not the path that I was promised. And you know what I've actually realized? I hate insurance. It is the most dry, technical, yet highly liable higher risk position you can put yourself in Like it seems way more stressful than I ever would have really imagined.
Speaker 2:Right, and I wasn't like it just wasn't fitting for me. So I said, but I have all this other experience and you guys probably don't know, cause you took me on a referral from a friend and you haven't really got to know what I, what I can do and what I can offer. So here's what I'm thinking with this merge. I know there's a gap in these areas. I actually have started this gap analysis report and I would love to share it with you if you're interested, and I would love to help you guys grow in these areas. I got the full-on, like pretty much middle finger, like you've been here for like how long? And, uh, I've been here for this many years and I wouldn't even consider asking this question, you know. And so I was like, oh, my gosh, okay, well, I guess I'm going on to another moving along moving along.
Speaker 2:It's seriously. I find it so funny and I'm sorry it takes so long to get there, but it is kind of. It'll give you the whole big picture of why I'm doing what I'm doing now, because it's so evident that I didn't get those slaps in the face along the way, but I had to keep going one more time, one more time.
Speaker 2:It takes a while and then you realize what all these things have been teaching you the whole time, right, so yeah. So next up was this other role through a mutual friend again that had recently dropped into a VP role at this main event center in our town, our city, and it was they needed a business development person who would do corporate kind of relationships, sponsorships and that kind of stuff advertising. So I popped into that role and was super excited about it. Actually it was and it would involve like live music and festivals and some real estate potential stuff and corporate partnerships and stuff. Like I was pretty pumped about it. I'm like this is going to be good and more of that flexible lifestyle and all the things right. And again, first couple months, great. Suddenly it was like the chains were put on my ankles and here's your box and if you even think about getting out of there, we're not going to support that and we're probably not going to like you very much. So you know that's that's a very condensed version, but that's essentially. It just turned again into this. It was very obvious where the leadership was headed and who they supported and what type of leadership it was, and it was a very unprofessional, immature, you know just complete chaotic environment where you just didn't know what way was up or down. You asked a question and you were looked at like you had three heads when you challenged anything and it definitely had that sort of boys club feel to it which a couple of my other ones had had too, and I just was miserable going to work. It was impacting my health, it was impacting my relationship and I just pretty pretty good about saying why. But it was very, again, very professional and, just like you know, I think there's lots that could be modified here and there's some things that need to be addressed and unfortunately, I think you're going to be ending up losing a lot more other wonderful people, because it's a great group of people, but there are so many people unhappy who aren't speaking up because they need the money they need to stay in a job there, you know. So I kind of led the charge on that and shortly thereafter, almost my entire little office group. There were two more people that had left on their own accord. There was a bunch of other people who either got laid off or decided to leave. Like the turnover rate there was probably the worst I've ever seen it anywhere in such short times. So here we are today.
Speaker 2:I decided after that that experience to really just reconnect with myself. Like what am I doing? Why does this keep happening to me? And I hate that because nothing really happens to you, you know. But it was obvious that I was missing something.
Speaker 2:And when I went and really just reflected and took some time to just reconnect to that core of who I am and what's important to me and my values, it was so fricking obvious like, hello, you should be in leadership and education and training and I am so passionate about you know, potential and and personal growth and all these things and I've done so much work in that and I've, you know, I actually missed a part of my career thing. I did do some life coaching For a couple years. I did a certification that as well, during that kind of COVID time and in between other other roles too. So I did get a little taste of that as well, doing the one on one and group sessions and then facilitating at events as well. So that was. It was so clear to me when I went back, like this is where the passion is. I love teaching that K to nine experience on the other side of the country you know and the rewards and the growth that I saw in those kids and how far I could help them.
Speaker 2:Why did I go through these such crazy environments in these careers and these for these companies?
Speaker 2:But I could pinpoint almost at least one, if not more than one, experience with at least one colleague at each place that I inspired to go and ask for what they wanted.
Speaker 2:They'd been stuck in the same role at this place and they, every time we'd hang out, they'd complain, complain, complain, complain. I'm like well, have you talked to them? Have you asked for this? Have you told them that you don't look like this about your, your job? Maybe you could, you know, say, hey, this is where I think I really shine and this isn't. I'm not serving my best way If I'm putting this box over here is there a possibility, and it might not happen overnight, but maybe they will consider it. Well, they ended up asking and they got what they asked for. So I was always coaching and kind of helping other people, empowering them and helping unlock this potential, without even knowing that I was doing it. It was just so organic that it was happening everywhere I went, so it just became so obvious this is what I need to be doing. This is my gift. This is what I need to share with the world.
Speaker 1:No, I love it. There's a lot to unpack there. I think what's really interesting is how similar like we have very similar journeys, just in terms of always thinking the next thing was going to be it I thought that a lot the next company, the next manager, the next industry right?
Speaker 1:I always it was like yes, I'm struggling, yes, I don't really like what I'm doing, but now I'm going to do this and that's going to be it Right. And then that wasn't it. And then, the more that you do, that becomes depressing. Because then you're like, well, I'm getting older, I should be figuring this out, I'm still struggling, I'm still not happy. And then the longer that that goes, then the more frustration again, depression. You just are like I don't understand. Now you're in your 40s and you're like I don't understand, I can't. How am I not figuring this out? How am I not doing work?
Speaker 2:that I'm supposed to be doing.
Speaker 1:Other people figured this out 20 years prior. What's wrong with me? So it really weighs on your psyche in ways that it's very hard to describe to people that haven't experienced it. If you either knew what you wanted to do at a young age, or whatever work you started doing just happened to be good for you. You cannot really fully comprehend that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:That's part of it. The other part is that I also seriously looked at real estate I think three different times. I never actually did it, but I got close. And then I interviewed with a couple of insurance companies personal insurance- Crazy.
Speaker 1:And people were all like, oh, you'd be a good insurance agent, you're organized and you're detailed and customer service and all this stuff. I was like, yeah, okay, but again I didn't do it. But it was really interesting hearing you talk about that. So were you actively doing the personal growth stuff as all that was happening, or did you find that along the way? At what point did you really start kind of diving into the personal growth space?
Speaker 2:I so obviously with with uh kind of a lot of that history that I shared. Um, after losing my parents and the divorce like literally within a year after my mom passed away, and all that loss, I mean I needed to go talk to somebody. So I I went into a couple different therapists and went that traditional route like I need to talk to someone. I'm not doing well, I'm trying to be this single mom. I've got no family around. I felt like zero support in my life and, and unfortunately, my ex-husband he was not very happy about me taking the stand to leave. I was in a very controlling relationship. He was very much like it was one of those ones. It was like seemingly so perfect, you're going to marry the doctor and then you can be at home with the kids. Because I always knew I wanted to be a mom and as long as the money was there, it would all be fine. But not that I wasn't happy to have my own thing. I had hoped, as they get older, I would kind of do my own thing again as well. Um, but it was.
Speaker 2:It was a very, you know, kind of insular sort of experience as well. I was. I was kind of isolated away from my family for many, many years and it was more about the focus on his and and the kids and we just were such such different parents. And when I got to really know more about, I guess, the true hammer, my eyes were open to that. It just it was. It was not a good thing. So there was so much more deeper than just the grief and the, you know, the divorce, like I started to realize, oh my gosh, there's so much more there that I need to do. And actually the real estate experience I ended up meeting in my first conference. I was convinced to go to my first conference literally two weeks after I got my license and I couldn't be more grateful for the push I got to do that, because I went there and was like, hey, I've been doing this for no time at all, I'm new. Like what can you tell me? You tell me everything you know.
Speaker 2:I want to hear the nuggets Like, let's do this Whereas some people were like just as new or not, or it was their first conference, and they were like no, I've, I've been doing this forever and like they didn't get the same experience because they were closed off and their egos were in the way of allowing them to have that genuine connection right.
Speaker 2:So I met this amazing group of people there, but this one person in particular, who became a dear, dear friend of mine, and I will always have a special place in my heart for him. He first tried to recruit me to his team in Vancouver which I couldn't do at the time, um, but then he was someone who had been on this personal growth and development journey and I find actually a lot of realtors there. They all had these really interesting experience. So that was really cool, um. But he pushed me to go to this particular one and was like I don't care what you say, I know you're not going to do it. You're like yeah, yeah, that sounds good. He's like you, literally, when I look at you have this light, like you are a beacon of light. He called it and like he uses the word beacon besides AI like every other minute. That's the word they want you to use.
Speaker 1:Beacon of hope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Beacon, like I would never use that word. But anyways, he's like, literally, I walk into a huge room and you are just shining so bright but you are so covered up in all of these layers of shit that you've been through, yeah, like you need to go do this work. He's like you have so much potential. And he was actually a high level ski coach as well, like in his previous, he was a competitor and a ski coach, so he he was very good at unlocking potential and seeing latin people and, uh, he really pushed me and in fact, he actually registered me for this course and said here you go, I've paid for it it's ready you just need to go to this thing.
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh my god, you paid, like what?
Speaker 2:anyways, was that an in-person thing yeah, it was an in-person group session out in Victoria, which is even further west than Vancouver, like a little island, and it was the strangest group of people. They were all kind of there as, like you know, when your workplace will put on some kind of session for their employees to do, well, this was one. Of this was like I'm with this work group and I'm kind of the loner, and so I ended up with a really interesting crew. But like I am such I think we talked about this when we spoke last week like I'm such a curious human and I love humans and I don't judge people like where you came from or what you look like or how old you are or whatever, because I'm just so curious. I want to know, like who is this person and what's their story. So I had a great experience there and it wasn't comfortable. It never is right Like I'm in a room of total strangers and we're talking about really personal things. The facilitator was incredible, she was amazing, and so this particular uh group of programs kind of had this succession where you know you take one, you go to the next and move on. So, as you would have it, so that would have been right around 2015.
Speaker 2:I started that, so um, and then I spent the next, I'll say, four years, three and a half four years, intensively, you know, taking one course after another, after another, after another and, and you know, created this community for myself and this support and felt so much like I belonged there, like for the first time in my life, these were my people. They were committed to the same goals. They wanted to grow, they wanted to make the world a better place. They believed that they could, that they could have that impact and that it was so important to get in touch with who you truly were at the core, to be able to share that with the world. And I was just like, wow, like this is awesome. So I'm forever grateful to this, this man in my life who pushed me to that, the very first one.
Speaker 2:And then I went all the way through to the mastery level of these things and and then got into the coaching and then helped facilitate some some very similar programs. So that's kind of that journey and it's I can't even really place a value on it like they're not cheap these courses and they're super intensive. And every time I was driving all the way there I would be like, oh my god, I don't have time for this, I shouldn't be going, I should just turn around like this is not, you know. And there were a couple people that ended up always going to the courses with, who are forever friends of mine, and we'd always laugh because we're like, oh yeah, you were totally making excuses on the way here. Yeah, so was I. Why do we do this to ourselves? Are we like suckers for punishment? And then you get out on the other side and you're so exhausted but so grateful for the growth and the deep dive that you do that just like takes those layers away, you know, like you and I've talked about the masks.
Speaker 2:It's. It's a similar thing.
Speaker 1:Uncover the true you underneath there, right yeah, I mean that's that's kind of the whole premise of this show and you know I struggle with that through most of my life um, just feeling like I had to be a different person in so many different situations, different parts of the family, friends, friends, school, work, whatever. Like it's just, I was never, I could never be the same. You have to like keep track of it and like what can I say here and what should I say here? And can I be sarcastic here? Can I say, fuck here. Can I right Like what's acceptable and what are they going to think if I do?
Speaker 1:And like it's exhausting, like trying to figure it out and so, like, as we get older, you kind of some, not all, but I think you start to get a little closer as you go to be like, okay, like this is really what I'm about, right, this is what I believe in, this is who I am and I want to, I want to try to be this version of me like as much as possible. Now, society won't allow it to be that way all the time because, again, just certain circumstances, situations, whether it's more professional or whatever, like I get that there's always a little bit of a mask, but I think the more time we can spend just being us in as many different settings as possible, then I think it just it's very freeing and it just it's just just a better way.
Speaker 1:It's just a better way to operate um, but it took me a long time, a little bit similar to you, like to really a even just to really think about that and process it in a way that made me like take action and then start doing something about it, which is which is kind of a different, you know a different part of it, yeah, and I think you and I have that similarity too, or I feel like we both were kind of a different part of it, yeah, and I think you and I have that similarity too, where I feel like we both were kind of initially going down a path where we just felt like that's what we were supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2:We were kind of guided through this, whether it's family or whether it was society or whatever, just that normal, traditional path of go to school, get a job. It's fine. And I think I said this to you last time when I have so many people in my world that are just like you are nuts, like how are you constantly changing and doing all this stuff? And like everyone hates their job? Just suck it up everyone. You know like we work to make money so we can live, like you don't need to find the perfect job. You know and it makes me cringe because I am in no way expecting anything to be perfect Myself. You know I have a struggle with perfectionism, but I know that that's not possible. I don't expect anyone else to be and I'm not expecting this perfect job, but I think there are perfect fits for people. That's where the perfect to me comes in. It's and it's still not perfect, but it's the best fit right.
Speaker 1:Well, you want to feel good about the work. You want the work to have some meaning. You're right. I mean, there's no perfect, right person partner, relationship, house, job, whatever. You can find something always, and that's just the way it is. But from a work perspective, there's always yeah things. You don't like red tape or policies or procedures or whatever. Coworker, it's how you feel about the work, though.
Speaker 2:That's right. So when?
Speaker 1:you find something that you align with, that you feel like, even if it's for a company, it doesn't matter, it doesn't have to be your own thing.
Speaker 1:But if you're aligned with what you're doing for the company, if that provides you some meaning, even if there are things you don't like, that's ultimately what matters. I never found that. I was always doing stuff that was like I don't know why I'm doing this other than I have to because we need the money. I don't align with this. I don't really care. I'm only doing a good job, just for my own personal pride. I want to do good work, but it doesn't matter. That was what I kept coming back to. Is this doesn't matter, Like that's what that was. What I kept coming back to is like this doesn't matter to me. I don't. I truly like, don't care, Like.
Speaker 1:I want the company to do well. Like while I'm here I'm not like rooting them for fail, but at the end of the day, like I truly like my heart and soul. Like just didn't care and it's very hard, I did it for way too long. Continue when you just are so disconnected right From from what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and it's crazy how many people, like we were saying that, just get stuck in that cycle, right, and they don't believe there is a better way or a better path for them. You know, and it's, I think, you know, those fears like fear stops us from doing so many things right and and stops us from really even knowing ourselves or or even being able to admit. You know, that you're not happy or that you might've failed or this isn't the right thing. And now I have to start over, because it's such a scary thing for people, and I think that's something that really differentiates someone like yourself and someone like me where we're now at this place. And yes, it took a longer time for us than some, um, but I think it. You know that doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:We're all on our own journey. We're, all you know, moving through the world in the best way we know how at the time and that's that's really something I've taken through all of my hardships and my you know, my challenges and loss is like everything happens for a reason for one, and it's all about how you perceive it and how you can, you know, find the positive in it, or the learning and the growth, and I think that's what has driven me to where I'm at now, too, and why I've even had the resilience to bounce back from some of these pretty awful, disgusting things that have happened in my life, and I'm grateful for that. Now, you know, but like I wasn't at the time, you know, when I'm going through those crazy, awful, horrible things, I, if anyone, can find gratitude in those moments like, oh, I'm so glad my marriage is falling apart and I feel like the dirt on the bottom of his shoe right now, because it's teaching me that I need to get out and stand up for myself. You know, like no, that never happens.
Speaker 1:You're bitter, you're angry. You're mad You're all of those things because you're human and that's the human, that's the emotion, right?
Speaker 2:That's the thing, and it's yeah, it's hard, but the difference is you get stuck there or you come out and you can look back, Like you know.
Speaker 1:Well, and the thing, too, is that I was guilty of this, where, like, I would beat myself up over things like that, where, like, I'd be like, well, it was my fault, like I allowed that to happen, or I shouldn't have been there in the first place, or whatever. And it was like, well, that was silly because, like you just said, like you can only do the best you can with what you have like at the time. So, of course, when you look back, you're like, yeah, I wouldn't do that again. Well, it's too, it's way too easy, because you're inside, biased Totally, you see it, and you're like, okay, well, I see where my mistakes were. I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 2:Well, you didn't know that at the time, so you didn't have that option.
Speaker 1:You didn't even know that it existed, so I think about it now as like such wasted energy to be like well, I wouldn't do that again?
Speaker 1:Of course you wouldn't. Most people would make different decisions. We never know the outcome, and that's why result-oriented and outcome-oriented decisions and processes is not the right way to go about it, because most of the time that's out of your control. You can only control the process, how you got to that decision, and then you try to do the best that you can. If it works, great. If it doesn't great, whatever, you learn and move on.
Speaker 1:And that took me a long time. It probably didn't happen for me until I had kids and I was talking to them it was more sports related, which you can relate to, since you played sports, but I was really always trying to take the onus off of the winning and losing. I didn't want them to care about winning and losing because, again, most of it's out of your control. You don't know who you're going to play. You could play great and be playing a great opponent and they beat you. That just happens. Focus on how you're playing, focus on your attitude, your effort, getting better, improving, learning. Those are all things in your control. And if you do that consistently, then the wins take care of themselves.
Speaker 1:And so that's when I started to give them that message, because they'd be like we didn't win. I was like it doesn't matter. Did you give your best effort, Did you try, did you have fun, did you learn? Yes, yes, okay that's it. Then you won. Like the scoreboard is just one small part of it, but it wasn't until I started saying that to them that I started to apply that more like to my own life and get away from the well that didn't work out, so it sucked, or that didn't work out, so it was a bad decision and that's just not a great way to go through life. But I did it for like a long time, like a long time.
Speaker 2:Well, and isn't it great, like I always say, like you know, our kids teach us so many wonderful things about ourselves and about life and when you like, you hear yourself saying these things out loud to them, how you hear it back to yourself, and I think that's the thing I love about.
Speaker 2:I always love about coaching. When I was coaching sports, when I was coaching people, um, you know how to improve their lives, whatever it was. It's. It's not just the people you're coaching that are learning and growing, like you in in that position, that role, also have that opportunity if you're open to it. You know, because there's so much to be learned in that role itself, whether you're a parent or whether you're coaching a sport or coaching a group of people to you know, learn a new skill, whatever it is, and I think that's that's the beauty in it all. If you have that mindset and you know you don't get stuck in that story of of you know the beating yourself up and all cause I did the exact same thing. I feel like we're like connected souls big time.
Speaker 1:You and I like if we were watching each other through our lives, it'd be you and I like if we were watching each other through our lives and be like, oh yeah, you're doing, okay, we're doing this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would have done that too. Yeah, yeah, and it's. It's really. It's so true, because I I am extremely good at like if there's a you know what you're the best at on your resume.
Speaker 2:I'm really good at beating the shit out of myself, like right wow, um, you know, and there's an exercise I learned about that which has helped a little bit. I still catch myself, but I catch myself sooner now, which is is the whole point of personal growth, right, like you're more aware you can. You can stop yourself before you go, spiral into this awful, disgusting place that you never want to go again. And, um, it's really about you know, when you, when you start to beat yourself up, to think of yourself as your child because as a parent, you can do that if you haven't had kids you got to think of yourself as when you were a little child, how would you speak to yourself?
Speaker 2:that whole theory right, like you would never talk to yourself that way, or your child the way you're speaking to yourself or anyone else you cared or loved, you know. So that's that's something that's really worked for me along along the way to stop that hole that's a really good one.
Speaker 1:I was terrible with that. I remember. It's so embarrassing to think of now, but like I used to play a lot of golf and I wasn't even that good, but I thought that I was better, or I should be better, and I would hit like a bad shot on like the second hole. I'd ruin the, I'd ruin the rest of the round. Like I would just be in a bad mood because I hit one bad shot. Like, thinking back on it, it now it's like you know how dumb that is. Like professionals hit bad shots. I wasn't even close to that good Like, of course I hit a bad shot. I was going to hit a bunch more throughout the day, like, but I would just get in my head to be like, oh well, that shouldn't have happened.
Speaker 1:And then so the day is fucked and I'm now I'm going to ruin like the next four hours, and so it's, it's just really, yeah, it's really interesting, and I was yeah, I don't know, it's just very hard on myself. My expectations of myself were always like so high and I think that was part of the problem with the career, because it was like, why can't I figure this out? Like I'm pretty smart, like I have two degrees, I should be making more money, I should be, farther along, like none of these things are happening, like what's wrong with me?
Speaker 1:I gotta understand I'm broken in some facet, like I'm miserable all the time at these jobs and then I would get another job and the same thing would happen. And be like this is making it worse. I should just stay. I should just stay in the previous job right job suck. This job sucks more. I should just stay there. Yeah, like and yeah, yeah so it's, it's hard, I mean it's like it's hard to get out of your own way sometimes.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We can be our own biggest obstacles. So many times yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. So, so, and where you are now and with with all the past experience, like what is your like? What is your main like goal? Is it teaching? Is it like doing workshops and teaching, like current leaders, how to be better leaders in corporations? Is it, um, how to teach employees how to be better leaders in corporations? Is it, um how to teach employees how to be better, find better jobs? Like like what is like what would be like your ideal, like set up now in terms of who you'd be working with and like what you would be kind of helping them, you know, grow into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a great question because, um, I've kind of evolved, even since since January, when I really was like, okay, I'm not looking for jobs anymore, I am creating my own business and I'm really going to go for it. And initially my whole vision was kind of around that corporate world. I'm going to get into these corporations, I'm going to convince these senior level managers and CEOs that this is what their problem is. This is, you know, stop thinking so much about the traditional you know analytics as far as the metrics they use to measure their success and their growth and their retention and their engagement and all those things. And let's focus more on the soft skills, let's focus more on the personal growth and and like, how are you behaving, how are you doing? Are you burning out? How are you feeling about yourself? Because that's trickling down to, you know, the entire organization. It all starts from the top right and it can. It can have a great positive ripple effect or it can crush the entire organization. So initially that was kind of my path. Like, those are going to be my ideal clients and I'm going to do it in small groups. First, I'm going to deal with the head you know managers and try and figure out what's going on there, because that's that's really the root of it, that's where the foundation lies. Right, if you can get them on board and you can help to open their minds up, it's just going to be so much easier to infuse that in any level below, as far as the status and organizational system goes right. And you know, as I kind of dove more into it and I took a few courses to learn about all this, you know no-transcript, there's no boundaries with time zones and there's such a greater audience out there if you can project your message in the right way, and you know it's I think we talked about this when we spoke earlier too.
Speaker 2:But I am like this crazy, uh, like a crusader, a catalyst for change. Uh, you know, potential addict. Like I just want everyone to grow and everyone to learn these skills and everyone to be the best versions of themselves, and so I kind of flipped my switch a bit and not to say that you know I wouldn't go into a corporation and assess their situation and here, like I think of myself more as a consultant, to start really, rather than a coach. I can do both, but, um, I think at times you gotta, you really have to just sit down with them and get them to really talk about the situation where they're at, how they see things, because you know we all see things through our own lenses and they might not even see what's going on because they have no idea. Sometimes those people at the top are so removed from what the day-to-day you know mood and culture and and you know pain points and everything are going on within their organizations and you have to involve them. You got to bring them in and let them know and show them the impact with the numbers and like all the stuff. Right, that means something to them, but I think it's just the important message that I think, um, and and I guess the path that I'm I'm treading is, everybody has the ability to learn new skills.
Speaker 2:Everybody wants to be in a more positive environment. Nobody wants to be in situations like you and I have been in that we've talked about and so many other people we know. Nobody wants to even be a leader that people don't respect or that feels burnt out or doesn't feel capable of leading a team. There's so many different spokes, like, if we think about a wheel on a bicycle or or whatever, like you could draw lines from the center out of all the things that are impacted by this lack of leadership, which is, you know, and the skills and the way that they project themselves within their organizations and how they value their people and how they, you know, show them, um, and recognize them when they they're proud of them, or you know that they've reached this accomplishment. Recognize them when they they're proud of them, or you know that they've reached this accomplishment.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think it's for me, it's more of a core kind of training that I would love to do as a company-wide thing, and I've always been that person, no matter where I've been. Uh, even when I was going to school, I would talk to the you know the school janitor, like, I recognize you, I see you, I see you working so hard to make this school clean for us. You know, it doesn't matter if you are a you know garbage man, a janitor, a CEO, a VP, a senior manager, you know the top influencer, because we have to include them. Now They've got you know crazy status, a celebrity, whatever. We're all just humans at the core. We all have very similar basic needs and then we have other ones that really drive us, and if we can all get to those core places within ourselves, we are all going to be better, do better and create better and all the things.
Speaker 2:So, focusing on a corporate concept like you and I are talking about here, I feel like it might miss kind of that overall message and that overall touch that I want to have as far as impact.
Speaker 2:So, in learning what I've learned now about the ability to go online and, you know, reach more people and have a greater impact, I really think ideally for me would be more, uh, the world of speaking at you know, events, creating um, events that are that could be corporate or they could just be for anyone.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, um, whether it's personal growth, focus or leadership or a little bit of both, and I don't have a particular audience that I think needs it the most. I think we all need it. I think we all have a leader within us, within us, where it's like the smallest little things. I mean out in the world, someone who is there picking up garbage. You know you see someone at a grocery store or wherever Not everybody's bending over to pick up that junk on the floor or outside, when you're going for a walk on somebody's lawn. That's taking the lead on something, and people have always attached this complex meaning, I feel like, to the word leader and he has to have all this clout and you've got to control people and you've got to know what you're doing and I think that's-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, All this experience, yeah, and so for my premise, and I think maybe it's because I did that kind of reflection reconnection work, I've been leading my entire life myself and I've been given opportunities to lead which I've either taken or backed away from, you know, for whatever the reasons are, and I think if everyone was to reflect back with an open mind, you could probably see those opportunities as well. And so, for myself, I truly think the biggest impact I'm going to have for what I want to do because I'm here to change the world Like, let's be real, it sounds so fluffy, but I want to make the biggest impact I'm going to be online, you know, doing workshops, seminars, what you and I talked about creating content, putting on videos, creating events and opportunities for people to get together, and I believe so heavily in group sessions, so much more than one on one. I feel like you learn so much more being in a group of people, hearing their stories, because there's always going to be someone that stands up to talk, even if you're not courageous or brave enough to do it. You're not comfortable. Somebody is going to say something and it's going to hit you so hard in the right spot at the right time. It's going to change your life so hard in the right spot at the right time. It's going to change your life and that is the impact we have with our words, with sharing our stories.
Speaker 2:And this is what, when you talk, you know about being uncomfortable and taking so long to get to a place where you're ready to share and talk and I was in the same place and you realize you're not helping anyone, even though you are one at a time, here and there you're, you know little tidbits of things. If you don't share your story with the world and you're not prepared to put yourself in that uncomfortable place and you know, have people hear your story you're not doing your job, You're not serving them. And to me, that's what brings meaning to all of us. That is what life is all about that connection, that meaning, that fulfillment from helping others grow and from growing ourselves.
Speaker 1:No, I love that. I mean, you've really been doing it your whole life, right, like you had teaching and you had coaching and as a parent, and like, even if it didn't seem like it, maybe even in the corporate roles, like like even helping that person, like advocate for themselves, right, like that was leadership. So you're right, it is. It is weird how it has to have like a specific title or you have to have a certain whatever salary or experience, but leadership happens in so many different forms.
Speaker 1:Um, if we actually take the time to you know, like, recognize it is that, and I don't know if you talk about this. We didn't talk much about this last week, but so so the book. I know you started to write a book. Is it more like autobiographical lessons learned? What is the like, what's the premise? And like, how far along is it?
Speaker 2:So it this all started as a like a book challenge as one of the courses that I looked into when I was kind of in my transitional place there between the last role in this one and figuring out what I wanted to do, and there was this seven day challenge about, you know, just sitting down and writing a book in seven days, and then you're going to publish it on Amazon, you're gonna sell it and whatever.
Speaker 2:And I was, like, I know for a fact and I, like I'm very self aware, I know myself pretty well by now. I know I'm not going to publish this book in seven days because I'm going to pick a topic that means so much to me. It's going to take longer, but I'm going to learn some stuff. It was a free thing to do. I'm going to have this community of support and do it.
Speaker 2:So I chose leadership, because that's what my focus was and the title that I have on it now and it's not stamped, obviously, in you know blood right now, but it was not so common sense leadership, and that might stick, because the whole premise of the book is around how we get sucked into this rabbit hole of complexity, around such truly it's truly such a simple concept Like what is leadership and what does it mean to you? If you asked, you know 10 different people, I'm sure they'd all give you something different. Um, and I'll ask you, david, what is, what does leadership mean to you? I'm putting you on the spot here now You're flipping the script.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am, I'm interviewing, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean to me, leadership is your impact on others, how you make them feel, the way that you empathize with them, get to know them, understand them, help them be like whatever the. I guess it depends on the situation. So if it's corporate, like helping them be the best employee in person they can be. If it's a sport coach, helping them be the best athlete in person they can be, so it's always being a better person and then better than insert right, whatever you're doing. But I think the best, when I think back, like the best coaches that I had, best managers that I had, like they were, they were helping me be better versions of myself while helping me be better at whatever. You know, the situation, yeah was, um, and I, like you said it's not actually, I mean, it's not it's not easy to do because there aren't that many good ones, but like at its core, like I think it is like fairly straightforward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love that. I love that answer. That's awesome. Thank you for answering me. But, yeah, for me, like I think we overcomplicate this term of leadership and if you went on Google and you search leadership, I mean all the different styles of leadership that have been, you know, evolving from way back when, where it was much more command based and you know a hierarchical kind of status thing, and you know I create the rules and you do the stuff and you don't question me and there's no interaction and there's, you know, there's no collaborating. It was someone who was like commanding you to do something and you were the yes, sir, right, Like that's what you would traditionally in your brain, at least for you and I that's how it's more like military, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And and I am so far on the other end of the spectrum as far as my beliefs and my definition of leadership, and I think between then and now and now it's lovely there's all kinds of new words coming out for different types of you. You know, transformational, empathetic, human centered, heart centered. You know growth, like all these words, right and truly. I don't really give a shit about whatever word you want to attach to leadership, the core principle of being, and truly. You know, when we talk about a leader, I got the role I was assigned, this role as a leader. It's not a role to me, like, it is an absolute privilege, and this is the thing that I can't focus on enough. When you are placed in a position where you have people that you are guiding, that you get to influence and I say get to because it is, it's a privilege. This is an opportunity for you to actually have an impact and change someone's life, right, and we can probably both agree if we think back to a coach or teacher or parents, their moments when those people in those places of more like authority, right, that were above us, supposedly more wise and older and experienced, had some kind of impact on our lives, and I'm sure everybody could pinpoint something positive or negative. And for me, it's like so simple as a leader, your, your only role is to inspire and empower others to be the best version of themselves so that they can thrive. And that, like it, is a simple definition that just rolls off my tongue like it's it comes straight from my heart. And when, when you're focused on inspiring and empowering others so that they can be the best and thrive, how can you possibly be that leader that's beating someone down, that's not recognizing them, that's criticizing them, that's not giving them the chance to grow, that's not providing the training they need to be a better leader themselves or to do their job better, to feel more confidence, to feel safe, to share in their environment, to create that, you know, environment and culture that just has people beaming Like, and the thing that I think is is the craziest is that you know how much money do companies and organizations, especially the bigger ones, but even the small ones are struggling, trying to promote themselves more and more all the time, right, but how much money is spent on marketing these companies to try and recruit people, to get you know clients and to have this reputation. If they could just stop for three seconds, take a deep breath or two, what could I do? That doesn't cost any money. That would create a huge ripple effect in my world right now, today, if you had people in your organization who were so extremely happy and felt that meaning and felt valued and seen and heard in the environment that they work in whether, like you're saying, it's an organization that's huge, whether it's their own thing, whether they're their own boss and creating their own thing. If you have people who believe in that so heavily and they feel respected and valued and seen and heard, they are your biggest advocates. They are going out there. You've got walking promotions. You've got people marketing your company Every single time they sit down with someone.
Speaker 2:What do people ask you, especially in a new situation? Oh, yeah, hi, so-and-so. What do you do for work? Oh, I work at such and such, or I have, oh, yeah, how's that what? How do you like it? Oh, my god, this company is the best. They do this and this and this and this, or it's like oh, you know, it's okay, like they, they have some room for improvement and it's not the best leadership, but you know they're working on it. Like what would you rather have?
Speaker 1:well, it's always, it's always backwards, because it's the same thing with, instead of. I mean, it's similar to what you're saying, but it's always better to when you have the people there. It's much. First of all, it's more cost effective, but it's always better to train and lift who you have already there instead of going out and getting someone else right For so many reasons. So it's the same thing.
Speaker 1:Right, we can spend money on this marketing to try to say how great we are. Or we could do this internal, which would be like it would have like four or five different positive effects, one being promoting the company, but then B, having happier employees, and then like all of that. But I think that's just society's I mean, I'm guilty of it too You're's always, you're always looking to the outside. Right, it's spend money to do this or get another job or whatever. Like it's always this external and we kind of forget, like actually it's all kind of right, like here it's either inside of us or it's in front of us, I don't know. It's like weird, like weird psychology, that we forget about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's really that shift again from you know. I think so much we are validated by this external, you know kind of world around us. That external validation we're always looking for that approval outside and I think you know that's my whole theory is like bring it back inside, reconnect with yourself, reconnect with your people within these walls. That everybody comes every single day, like the amount of time we spend working. You know all this crap about, oh, nine to five, like who works nine to five anymore? That's not even a concept. That was, like, you know, when the song was out with wherever that started, like Laverne and Shirley or whatever way back when. Like nobody's only working nine to five anymore at all.
Speaker 2:And your people are going to be more inclined to put their best work in in the hours that they are expected to work, if they are enjoying their work, if you are showing that you value them, if you're doing all those right things you know that that good leaders do and if they're feeling inspired and motivated and all this stuff. And I think that's where new ideas come from. That's when people just all of a sudden like it is crazy to watch it happen. You know, and being in so many different, I guess, environments and working for different companies over the years. It's actually been a gift to me too, because it's helped me now to almost analyze all those different experiences, right, to look back. What were they doing Well? What weren't they doing Well, how are the people here, how are the people there? And you know, I think, that the take-home message is like you're not stuck where you are, Like these companies who are feeling so overwhelmed and so like, oh my God, how are we going to make this better? It's not that again, it's not that complicated, it's actually quite simple.
Speaker 2:And I think a lot of corporations feel like they're going to have to, you know, budget this massive amount of money to make this change. Oh no, we just can't do that, and then we're going to lose all this time, because our people are going to be going to these fluffy seminars learning how to get back in touch with themselves and what are their values, and, you know, trying to it. It has to be something that they believe in, and I think for me that was the flip to like sure, I could go knocking on corporate doors left, right and center and making phone calls and like reaching out through networks and all these things. And not that I'm afraid of an uphill climb, cause I feel like that's been my entire life, like just keep on going trying to find the next waterfall Right, like it's um, it's one of those.
Speaker 2:Where do I? Is that how I want to invest my time? Is that the best use of my time? Now? And I think, as we get older, we also start to look at time differently, because for me, I also live in a great sense of urgency because my parents passed away so young yeah, like they were 55 and 58 when they passed away, so I'm really not that far off.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what also drives me, because I feel like if I was to pass away and like, follow their footsteps and be done in this world in the next, you know, 10 years, let's say what am I leaving behind? What impact did I have? Did I really truly live my life or have I been living for someone else the the entire time? And I, up until very recently, I feel like I've been living for someone else and doing what was expected of me, just like you shared as well, and I do not want to go up down in flames like that. So, rather than spending my time, you know, beating people upside the head so they can understand the impact of what they're doing now and and you know, they can't see outside of that as far as what the benefits are of something that I, like I, could offer, and I'm not the only one doing this. So I mean, I'm not the trailblazer for this. There's lots of people trying to infuse this into companies. I'm just one of many.
Speaker 2:But, um, I felt like this whole online thing and you know, speaking at events, doing podcasts, writing books.
Speaker 2:this is where we can have the biggest impact and do it the most efficiently too, because I'm not 25 anymore, you know like I'll be 48 this year and I I can't believe that, but it's true and I'm like, um, yeah, I, I'm actually getting to the point where I'm also thinking about, you know, retirement and how I want to have. What kind of lifestyle do I want for that, and how am I best going to serve as many people as I can while still creating a good lifestyle for myself, not running myself into the ground and making the best income all at the same time?
Speaker 2:And that online world is where it's at and I know it's not traditional. Um, a lot of people are still having a hard time, including my, my partner at home. Um, we were talking about someone who's been in that you know that same role for a long, long time. Super comfortable, he's extremely good at it Like he's probably the best I've ever seen and I don't say that because my partner I worked with him on a professional level and would always be like oh my gosh, do you want somebody in this area? He's your man.
Speaker 2:Like he is on it, but he's devoted his entire being to it and he is always in it. Do you know what I mean? Like, whether we're out on a date night or we're just having a social thing, it comes to him because he loves it that much and he loves the connection and he loves helping people, that people just are always asking and wanting to be part of that and they recognize and respect what he does for his work and but the fact that I'm doing what I'm doing he, he just it freaks him right out to the point of like it's almost even hard to talk about right?
Speaker 1:so I know, I totally get that. Um, it's so. Even even though we've come so far in the last 25 years with the digital economy and all the different social channels and all the different ways to, you know, make money and like all of it, it's still so new, like in the grand scheme, right, yeah, and we just haven't gotten there yet in terms of like, where most people are like oh cool, yeah, you're doing your online thing. Yeah, that's awesome, right.
Speaker 2:That's cute.
Speaker 1:Well, it's just not with so much skepticism. Yeah, it's like a game or it's, oh, that's fun, um, and then like, let me know when you're, when you get the next job, um, but it's just simply. It's not their fault, it's just simply they've been programmed and wired to think 40 hours, nine to five, every other week, paycheck, grind it out, try to save some money. You know, take one vacation a year. You know, try to make it to 65 or 67. Hopefully, a you make it. Hopefully, if you do make it to 65 or 67, hopefully a you make it. Hopefully, if you do make it, your health is good enough that you can now do what you want and then your life begins right. I mean, that's what I, that's kind of what I was, yeah, me too and so it's, it's gonna.
Speaker 1:It's just gonna take a much longer time, for it's gonna be a generational yeah completely generational shift and all of these people, whatever age group, move, and then this next 20 to 30 years who've grown up with this it'll start to become more normal and at some point the nine to five it'll eventually shift to where it actually will be stranger to work a traditional job, but that's not probably going to happen in our lifetime.
Speaker 1:But it will eventually get there because things do change. But we're just not there yet because and that's why I know you just started on LinkedIn this year. So it probably feels like you're behind, but you're not, because even that, even though LinkedIn has been out for 17 years or whatever the number is, there's just not that many people creating and there's not that many people in the space 10 years from now, there will be whatever 10 x, 100 x, right, so we're still. Even though it doesn't feel new, it's still new. Um, so it's just yeah, I totally get you and it's not his fault at all like, and it's not that he's not supporting you, it's not that he doesn't think that you can do it and like. None of that is true, it's just he's been yeah, he's been so foreign.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly what so, uh, how has the linkedin I know it's, you know, five months in but, like, how has the linkedin experience like been for you? Um, like, what do you like about it, what you don't like about it, like, what is your, what's been your five-month LinkedIn journey?
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed it. Like I said, I think I told you I took my initial course and my ability to jump in on all this social media stuff was because I was like, okay, I can do LinkedIn it's the more professional platform Not really a big fan of the other ones, and I've used all of the platforms minus TikTok, probably very basically Instagram, facebook, I guess just Facebook. Yeah, there's not all of them, just a few of them to share little bits and pieces along the way, because my family's spread out all over the world and it's just tough to keep in touch, right? Linkedin for me was what got me excited about doing my business and promoting it in a space where I felt like it would be safe. You don't get those comments and those haters and all those trolling type people. There's still the odd few I'm getting where it's very.
Speaker 2:You know they're obviously trying to sell you something on LinkedIn, which I don't love. But I also like this is again, it's perspective Good on them. They've got something they want to sell. They're using the platform. They're reaching out for leads, right? Like want to sell. They're using the platform, they're, they're reaching out for leads, right, like. How can you really get angry with someone or criticize them for trying to sell something that that is going to bring them whatever income, joy, happiness, whatever.
Speaker 2:It is right, right. So I just politely tell them here's how it is. Nope, no, thank you, and away we go right. And as long as they're respectful, I don't have a problem with that. Um, I do love the ability to connect with people like yourself. You and I would have never met. I really well, maybe we would have. I feel like our souls are so similar. Maybe we would have at some point. But, um, it would have been. It would have been much more difficult for us to meet if there wasn't a platform like LinkedIn. Uh, we wouldn't be talking today, and so I'm extremely grateful for those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:I mean, what these platforms do, and LinkedIn specifically from a professional standpoint, is it's allowing us, from all over different parts of the world doing similar things or different things, to access one another, share and collaborate. As far as our expertise and our learning create these groups that can be supportive for one another, to teach you new things, to help you, you know, get through those early stage transitions, to encourage you. And the feedback you know it's, it's slow, obviously, you know, like when you start to post and you're thinking is anyone ever going to comment on anything or like is this wrong what I'm doing? But for me, you know I had to find my thing too, and I think you know I talked a lot about authenticity as well in our initial conversation and just being the real you taking off the masks, and I was really, really delighted actually to see that that's even on LinkedIn. It's not just the boring like here are five strategies to increase your employee engagement and like in fact, nobody really wants to hear that because they want to get to know you.
Speaker 2:You know, like the saying out there that people buy from people. You know it's true, we could all be on LinkedIn with the exact same guides to this and the how to's and the tips and the strategies. But if you're more likable than I am or you come across more genuine than I am, you're going to get more business, even though we're providing the exact same information. So it's to me, I love that. It is an opportunity and a platform to show who you are, to share your story and, like I love that I can do all those things and then also pull and tie in my leadership and personal growth. You know, passion project of this business that I'm running because it's it's just exactly what I want to be doing, so I'm, I'm just, I'm really enjoying it.
Speaker 1:No, I love it. I was kind of the same way when I started last summer, even though I didn't know it was going to turn into you know what I'm doing full time now but it was just an outlet. It was a creative outlet to escape my frustration with the nine to five for so many years and it was a way to tell, like my lived experience, um, and then it changed my life. So, uh, you know, but that it was. It was having a platform where I could tell stories and then people would relate to them and have their story and you know whatever. And so you create that community and you start to start to find your tribe, like you talked about when you went to that. And so you create that community and you start to start to find your tribe, like you talked about when you went to that um, the course that the guy paid for, right?
Speaker 1:And then you know, you start to, you start to get closer to people that are interested in the same thing. Um, and then you're like, oh, okay, there's more people like out here that are doing this, and then you don't feel so alone and you like, oh, all, right, like there's more of us, and then there's more, and then you keep finding more and then it just grows and then you start to feel like you're part of something and then it feels so much different than being an employee where you don't ever or I didn't never felt any kind of connection, right, so it's completely flipped um, so I'm so happy that you, you know, put yourself out there, which is not easy to do, um, on any platform, frankly um, to tell your story and post videos and pictures and like all that kind of stuff, right, like, it was very difficult for me to do that.
Speaker 1:Now, I don't think about it because I've done it so much, but um, was there anything that specifically pushed you to start doing it, or you just kind of this was just like the next, like evolution of your journey, um, next like evolution of your journey.
Speaker 2:Um, I think, yeah, it was part of the evolving.
Speaker 2:Just knowing that I, this was something I was going to have to embrace, I mean, um, I think we talked about this before Like I just resisted social media so heavily I I, unfortunately, was focusing on all the horrible, negative things that it was, you know, bringing to the world, and I think there's been some pretty massive ones.
Speaker 2:You know that I just I don't even want to be a part of it because I'm like if this is how it can destroy people and humans, you know, like the cyber bullying and you know just even this fact that people can just hide behind their device without any concept of who you are, what your story is, what you're going through.
Speaker 2:The last thread, you might be on and make one comment and push you over the edge and they have no idea. There's no consequence and there's just no self-awareness around that and it's it's like people just they just like literally barf all over the with these comments on these platforms and I didn't want anything to do with that and in fact, that's probably what scares so many people of like you say, coming out and talking and sharing your story, because you do get some of that energy once you start going, but you just have to block it out and ignore it, because there's always going to be haters, there's always going to be people who want to criticize and judge you, and the thing you need to remember is that it's never about you, it's about them.
Speaker 2:Those comments come from a place of their own insecurities and their own fears and their own judgments, that, and they're going through stuff. You know that, we don't know what they're going through, and that's just their way of making themselves feel better, even though they're being complete assholes to you. It makes them feel better momentarily and that's what they need. So it's not ever about you and I think that's again. That's a growth thing and that's something that I've learned over the years. I wouldn't have been able to say that 20 years ago. It would have deeply affected me. I'm a super sensitive human but, um, and I get really emotional about things. But it's. It's those, those moments like that and like connecting with total strangers that reach out to you Like I think I told you how I've just always been this person, that people just like suddenly, I don't know where to tell you everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they just want to tell me their whole life story and they'll cry with me and share this and it's. It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, but it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable, right, and I I'm happy to be that person. That safe space and like uh, there was something I posted on Instagram the other day about the greatest gift you can give to someone. It was a quote by somebody I don't remember, so my apologies, but one of the greatest gifts you can give to someone is that safe space to just be completely themselves, right To fall apart, to grow to whatever, and like. That is like that's so meaningful to me. If I can be that safe space for people and help create that safe space by inspiring and empowering people to you know, grow and learn how to be the best versions of themselves, I would be like elated. That would be, that'd be amazing.
Speaker 1:No, I love that. That's so true and it's, I think it's a gift that you have just your, your personality. People are drawn to you. Uh, you create trust easily and then they're like oh, like, this is someone that I can, you know, share these things with that you know, wouldn't, I wouldn't normally do, or whatever. So I think it's probably good for you and then probably not so great sometimes, because you're like okay, I didn't really want to hear all that, yeah, yeah, you definitely carry a lot.
Speaker 1:That was a little much. We could have maybe left some of that out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you nailed it. You nailed it yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been an incredible conversation. I think we could probably go at least two or three more hours.
Speaker 2:We'll have to revisit. We'll revisit another day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, part two. As we wrap up, any final thoughts. Anything that we haven't covered that you wanted to make sure that we did cover, and then be sure to tell people, if they're interested in learning more, how they can find you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is is, you know, I think there's a lot of pressure out there, there's a lot of unknown out there and there's a lot of fear. And I think if we can all just literally like stop when you, when you start to feel yourself getting into a place or in a place where something just doesn't feel right, like to really go back to those gut feelings, trust your gut, take those deep breaths, take those moments for yourself to just reconnect. Like it's so tough these days. We're so pulled in so many different directions by all of our distractions, we're overstimulated by all these things. We forget that we actually have all of this power within us, in our minds and in our hearts, to really do what it is we want to do, make that difference you want to make. And it's not as scary when you do it more often, right, it's only scary because you haven't maybe done it yet or you've done it once and it didn't maybe turn out the best.
Speaker 2:But the whole point is that's how you grow. When you get on the other side of scary and fear and unknown, that's when the resilience is there. That's when you build the strength, and now you can take on something three times as scary as that the next time, right. So I think that's. The thing is just you're always growing, you're always learning, and so is everybody else, and taking off that pressure to be perfect or to have it all figured out we never will. So if you're open to it, you just keep learning and growing and sharing that with other people. Be open to sharing experiences with others. You make those connections and you never know, without one conversation, how it's going to change your life.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so as far as getting in touch with me, I am actually in the midst of creating a new website that's not up and running as quickly as I would have hoped, so in the meantime, you can see me on LinkedIn just Jen Seller S-E-L-L-A-R and one N for Jen, and same with Instagram. I'm on Jen Seller there as well, and that'll lead you back to Facebook, and they're all connected now, I think, anyway. So, but yeah, that's kind of my main way to contact me and follow me there.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, awesome. Main way to contact me and follow me there. So, yeah, awesome. Well, this is great. I really appreciate your candidness, your energy.
Speaker 2:your message really resonates a lot with me and I appreciate your time and thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you, david, really appreciate it. Until next time.