The Real You
1:1 Long-Form Interviews with Interesting People Doing Amazing Things
In-depth discussion of people's journeys to tap into their full potential and find ways to be the truest version of themselves.
The Real You
The Journey of Body Transformation and Mindset Tactics - EP 16 with Margaret Jennings (MJ)
Unlock the strategies to peak performance and leadership excellence with Margaret Jennings, a veteran coach who has successfully transitioned from a dual-sport athlete at Princeton to an influential mindset mentor.
Margaret shares her incredible journey from the sports field to the corporate arena, revealing how she leverages LinkedIn to connect with ideal clients and builds an online presence. We'll discuss how the principles of teamwork, confidence, and having a good coach play significant roles not just in sports, but in life and leadership.
The conversation doesn't shy away from the often misunderstood aspects of corporate leadership. We dissect the pitfalls of promoting individuals without proper preparation and highlight the pressing need for emotional intelligence and people skills.
By drawing powerful parallels with sports, Margaret illustrates how the skills necessary for individual excellence differ radically from those required to lead a team effectively. We critique existing reward systems and advocate for a balanced approach to leadership training that genuinely fosters team motivation and development.
Margaret also delves into the importance of embracing the process over fixating on results, with compelling examples from elite athletes like Steph Curry and LeBron James. We tackle the real issue of procrastination disguised as learning, emphasizing the necessity of translating knowledge into action.
From balancing personal fitness with professional responsibilities to the therapeutic influence of music in maintaining personal boundaries, this episode is a treasure trove of insights.
Margaret wraps up by sharing invaluable tips on mindset, goal-setting, and resilience, all aimed at helping you achieve your best self.
linkedin.com/in/margaret-jennings
Welcome to the Real you Podcast. I'm your host, David Young, and this is episode number 16. This podcast discusses tapping into your full potential and finding ways to be the truest version of yourself. Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Margaret Jennings. She's a coach, a mindset advocate and a big time lover of sports and music, and so am I, so it's near and dear to my heart. We will discuss her journey, why she loves coaching so much, how she uses LinkedIn and the power of building relationships with others. So, MJ, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show. Thanks for being here today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to getting into a bit of my own journey, but also talking a bit about our shared passions.
Speaker 1:Sure, absolutely Love it. So you and I met. It's on LinkedIn, but we actually are a part of the brand built community, which is how we connected. Darren Moss and Nat Berman started a community a few months ago and you and I both were kind of, I think, pretty early entrance into that community. So that's kind of how we got hooked up. And then you are in Toronto and my wife tells me that I collect Canadians because it seems like every call or every podcast guest I have on is somewhere in Canada and then usually they are in Toronto.
Speaker 1:So, you are in Toronto and you are one of those Canadians. So, yeah, I should talk a little bit about how long you've been on LinkedIn and how you use LinkedIn and we'll get started there on LinkedIn and kind of how you use LinkedIn and we'll start. We'll kind of get started there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're right, we met through brand built, which I joined pretty much when I was deciding that I wanted to build a bit of a presence on LinkedIn. So that would have been probably back in March, maybe late February, early March. So I haven't been at it for very long. But for me, what brought me to that was, yeah, I've been a coach for 17 years but just realizing that in the internet space I was relatively invisible, like I didn't really have a presence. I hadn't needed one. But again, I'm aware enough to have the foresight that that's the direction our world is heading right the rise of remote work, the rise of virtual coaching. So, just really doubled down on being able to create some presence in this space and get comfortable using the platform. And for me, linkedin is ideal because that's where I think a lot of my ideal clients would be in terms of who I'd look to work with Nice.
Speaker 1:So you started, as I believe, if I'm saying this correctly, you started coaching sports. That was kind of your first foray into kind of official coaching, and then you kind of moved towards now what seems to be more like kind of corporate leadership coaching or helping people in that space to be better leaders, kind of talk about kind of that evolution and how that kind of came to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was a very long time ago a dual sport athlete. I played hockey and rugby at Princeton and coming home I it was a pretty seamless transition from playing into wanting to stay connected to the sport, always caring a lot about the team dynamics and helping other people. So for me the transition into coaching athletics made sense. Coaching athletics made sense. So I started at like the grassroots level of like local organizations up here in the city while I was also working at a private school coaching and then just worked my way up the ladder into the junior levels, into the university levels and then ultimately ended up working with our provincial program, team Ontario, and doing some stuff with Hockey Canada Ontario and doing some stuff with Hockey Canada Love, love, loved it.
Speaker 2:But with the birth of our second son, it's a lot Athletic coaching. You're pretty much traveling every weekend and the work life balance just wasn't fitting for the other priorities in my life. So, and about probably end of 2018, early 2019, right before the pandemic, is when I transitioned into corporate coaching, leadership coaching and, most importantly, mindset coaching. So my friend owns a company up here in Toronto called Elite High Performance and I came on board with them initially to work with athletic coaches, again to stay connected to the sport. But then I quickly transitioned into working with leadership groups in corporate spaces and what I've learned is that, like mindset issues or mindset issues, performance issues or performance issues, it doesn't really matter the field whether it's athletics, whether it's corporate, whether it's at home the dynamics and the human tendencies are all kind of the same.
Speaker 2:So I've loved it. I really enjoy it. I think what I love the most about coaching is just being able to help people see their potential beyond the limitations of their own existing mindset right or the limitations of their lived experiences. I know for me coaching opens so many doors in terms of understanding my own potential and my own growth. So to be able to turn around and then offer that to other people is really what's behind my drive to do it.
Speaker 1:No, I love that there's so many parallels to sports. I played sports my whole life baseball, soccer, basketball, golf and I followed sports my whole life. So we're big sports people. My family, my kids play a lot of sports and I think the great thing about sports is there's such a metaphor for life right Like teamwork, learning to work in that team dynamic, having a coach, which is like having a boss, like you said, mindset, performance, confidence. There's so much that plays into that and I think if you really tap into it when you're playing sports, I think it can really help you later in life. So I think it's such a parallel right Like going from coaching, even though it was youth hockey, to now kind of corporate leadership, right. I think the groundwork was laid really well there. What do you see in the people that you work with? Do you have kind of a set program that you put them through? Do you tailor it based on, like, their needs? Like how do you kind of approach in terms of you know the way that you coach clients?
Speaker 2:Great question. It really depends. So we have group training programs that. So one our I guess token program would be the leadership launchpad program, which is a 12 week program to 16 week program. That does really walk people through step by step in terms of what is mindset, what is self-awareness, what is emotional intelligence. Um, the cool thing is, most of the coaches that I work with we do have this athletics background. So I'd say one differentiator for us is that we don't just talk about it Like we do about it, like we actually have this athletics background. So I'd say one differentiator for us is that we don't just talk about it like we do about it, like we actually have tools that we need to implement.
Speaker 2:The expectation is that there's practice and execution done on a regular basis, because I think that's the tricky part, right, when we talk leadership, when we talk mindset, I think most of us have an idea of what we might want. But, getting from where we currently are, you would have like a four to one practice to perform ratio. Right, because it's so understood, you need safe space to develop and hone your skills, whereas with leaders they're not really given any practice arena, right, like they're just kind of kicked in the pool and be like, if you survive long enough, like we'll throw you a floaty, maybe you can stick around here. And I think for me, that's one thing I'm really passionate about is how do we incorporate more safe space for practice in terms of being able to develop the skills you need to be a leader, not only when you're a leader, but maybe even when you're aspiring to get into that position?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great point. I think a part of the issue in corporations is twofold. One is what you're talking about is there's a real lack of training. So you know they promote people into management and then they either don't reduce, they're still doing like part of their you know previous job. Maybe they're training someone to take over that role.
Speaker 1:They're now trying to manage people, their plates are completely overflowing. Now trying to manage people, their plates are completely overflowing. Then there's not, the timeline is very condensed, and then there's no official formal training and so they're just like you said. Really it's truly like you're just thrown in the deep end and you're just flailing and splashing and trying just literally to survive. So that's part of it, and I think the other part and what I saw in my corporate career was they promote the wrong people.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like using sports right, the best players are typically not the best coaches.
Speaker 1:I mean, most of the most successful coaches in almost all sports either didn't play professionally or were very average players, like Phil Jackson was an average NBA player, right, popovich didn't play, bill Belichick didn't play in the NFL, and there's all these examples.
Speaker 1:But so in the corporate world you take like the best salesperson and they're like well, we're going to make them a manager and then they're going to teach everybody how they sell, which is completely backwards, because the skill set you need to be a great salesperson is not the same skill set you need to be a sales manager, which is the same thing in sports.
Speaker 1:Right, being a coach of a team completely different than being the best player, and I don't know why that is, and I just use sales as an example, but there's other examples too. So I think that's part of the issue, which is why we see I mean, I see so many posts on burnout, poor management, poor leadership, and I think it's just such a combination of factors. It isn't just like one thing. But I think the way they think about promoting people and the lack of like what you're talking about emotional intelligence and people skills versus the tactical skills, I don't think they balance that correctly and then they don't train them. So it's no wonder that there's such a need for like what you do and I see so many posts about it.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of a broken process and I see so many posts about it. It's just kind of a broken process. It really is. Yeah, I mean, I can't tell you how many star fishermen I've worked with who are now tasked with, like, teaching others how to fish right and it's like.
Speaker 2:But all of their and I think, when we talk about, when we bring the mindset component in right For them, all of their worth and value has been dictated by their contributions, like them doing the work and getting the results. So not only are you battling with they haven't developed that skill set, you're also battling with a mindset that has learned to value itself based on doing the work, not based on other people doing the work or motivating them to do so. And I guess the other layer there is within organizations. How many organizations celebrate a leader for their motivation of the people to do the work versus just the result? Right, like?
Speaker 2:I think the reward system that's set up can also fuel this trying to do everything and an inability to delegate or to feel comfortable with mistakes, to create again this practice space for the growth and development that's necessary to improve performance. Right? If you take an athlete and they only ever play in a game, let's say a hockey player. How are they going to improve their skating skills? They can't, because they're just going to be doing everything they can to stay up and try to get around the ice. They're not worried about efficiency, they're just worried about survival.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great point. I tell my oldest he's getting ready to turn 15 and basketball is his thing, and I tell him, like you know, the time to work on your game is the spring and summer. That's where you're working on, like your individual skills to improve for the season, because once the season starts it's much more team oriented. You're working on plays, you're scouting, you're taking the previous game, then you're making practice based on what you uh, the flaws in that performance or whatever, but and they do some like individual work to kind of get loose at practice but it's not emphasized and so you're right, like if you're only ever just doing the quote unquote game, there's all those individual pieces that make up a complete game and if you're not working on that, it's very hard to improve them because typically just playing in games or just doing the job, like you're not getting enough, you're not getting the reps in to really work on those like very specific things that you need.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and that's again, I think, something that leaders can run into right, they're just solely preoccupied with playing the game and they're not, whether it's their reward system or their beliefs. They're not carving out that time to hone the skills. They're not able to prioritize the time and energy they need to devote to that, to do that, and with the best athletes, yes, the time and energy they need to devote to that, to do that. And with the best athletes, yes, they show up to team practice, yes, they compete in games, but they also always prioritize that individual skill development right, the growth, the maintaining and improving of their skill sets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I tell my son. He had made some progress and I think he thought that he had made was kind of like good and I was like the best in the world, never stop. Like Steph Curry is still working on shooting uh, anthony Edwards is still working on ball handling shooting um LeBron, even at his age and his all of his accomplishments. Like he's still trying to play and like he's still trying to get better. Like the best in the world. Don't stop practicing. Like you don't, ever.
Speaker 1:There is no place you reach where you're, just like I'm all set um like you, if you want to be the best, like if you want to compete at the highest level, whatever that is for you it's not necessarily being a professional, but wherever the highest is for you. Like you keep working, like there is no, unless until you stop playing or until, whatever, you're not in organized sports, whatever. But yeah um, there's that. I think there's a little bit of that false sense of like oh, I'm pretty good at this now, so like I'm all set and it's like no no, there are, there's always, there are always things to work on, um, I like what you said.
Speaker 1:Going back to the results I talk about speaking of sports, um, I always tell my kids like winning and losing doesn't matter and I know that sounds a little bit contrarian, because obviously you keep score and you want to win, and I'm not saying it's not important to try to win, but you can't just focus on the outcome of the game. So I really try to focus with them on like effort, attitude, trying your best, and then if that results in a win, great, but if it doesn't, it doesn't matter. And so I think it's the same thing, especially in sales and quotas and making sure your reps are hitting their numbers, and then you're only really focused on did we make it or not? And I get it, you need to be productive at a certain level. But I always wonder if we really focused on the process, the journey, the learning, the tactics, if the results just wouldn't take care of themselves, or at least more consistently than just focusing on the numbers.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's so many studies out that prove that as humans, we're not built for the result, we're built for the process. So if we want to access the right amount of motivation right, and the right amount of clarity, it's found in the process. Because when we focus on the result A, we can't control it. But B it's like the study about Olympians who are actually happier in the pursuit of a medal than they are once they actually attain it. And I know many coaches and I've experienced it myself. You know everything is about the pursuit of this championship or this pursuit of the title. But then, once you get it, I mean, yeah sure, you celebrate it for a couple days and then most people, if that's been the focus, if that's been the peak of their mountain, they're left with the question of like now? What, like what? What matters now, if this is all there was, whereas process it's a never ending journey, right, and we can always focus on what we can control. So, yeah, like, our internal metrics matter just as much as the external ones we're given.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great point. I remember reading Usain Bolt said he trained four years to run for nine seconds. So you have to really enjoy that four years, like all that goes into that one performance, right.
Speaker 1:You can't be doing it just for the nine seconds. It's not enough. And even if you win which he did, like you said, like it's fleeting, like yeah, you win, you have the high, but that's going to go away and so you can't be miserable that whole time training, it's just simply not worth it. I had somebody tell me they were going to do, they want to do a full Ironman triathlon. I was like that's, that's a great goal. You're gonna have to train for nine to 12 months, 20 to 30 hours a week, to do a 12 hour race. So it's like I'm not telling you not to do it, I'm just telling you you better really enjoy the process, because it is a lot of work to get your body in that kind of shape for 12 to 14 hours and then that race is going to be over. So make sure you're really embracing that, because the race itself won't be enough.
Speaker 1:No, you talked about earlier about you can't think your way there, which I say that a lot because I was guilty of that for so long. I would read books, listen to podcasts, take notes and I would think of this better version of myself, or I would think about my potential and think it's going to happen, but I wasn't taking any action. I was reading the books and taking notes, but I wasn't implementing. I wasn't talking to people, I wasn't pursuing anything. Talk about how you've seen that with the leaders. You're talking about where they mistake. It's almost like procrastination via learning but they're not making strides or actually not taking the action to improve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, if you saw my bookshelf and the number of books I've read, and exactly the same thing. There's different layers to it, right to it, right. I think there are people that naturally love to learn, like it is in them to want to obtain new information, to learn new concepts, new ideas, and that's good and it fuels them right. But I think where it comes into a bit of a pushback is, like the question is, why is that not brought to action? Like, why do we love learning? But what's getting in the way of taking that learning and applying it?
Speaker 2:And often, from a mindset perspective, it is a fear of failure, right. For some people it's a fear of being seen. For some people it's a fear of change. Like our brain naturally prefers the familiar, like if it already knows something and there's a pre established pattern that means this happens and then this is the result. It really it's an evolutionary thing because for our brain it's saving caloric expenditure, like if it can just do something on autopilot, that's great. So there's a resistance to change and anytime we're looking to implement something new, that requires change.
Speaker 2:So one one thing that I've found that's been most liberating for people is to even just understand, listen, like your thoughts and even your emotions are not fact, right, it is an interpretation based on what the brain has learned through past experiences or through what it's witnessed.
Speaker 2:But it is not your truth. It is an interpretation. I think for us it can be really liberating because the majority of us, we go through life and we think our thoughts and we feel our feels and then we just react based on that right, like I'm angry, I'm upset, so I'm going to do this thing, and we never question it. And I think that's the really neat thing about building awareness around our mindset is we can actually see our brain as it's a biological function, right, like our digestive system is a biological function of the body, so it does what it does in an attempt to keep us safe and alive. But no one says like I poop, therefore I am. Yet everyone says I think, therefore I am. Like we give our brain, this organ, so much power and autonomy over what we decide to do with our whole selves.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think it's just for me that whole concept was very liberating Because, again, much like the digestive system, like if I feed it, part of my language, but if I feed it shit, like it's not going to function well, my brain moving forward if I feed it shit, if I feed it doubts, if I feed it shit like it's not going to function well, my brain moving forward if I feed it shit, if I feed it doubts, if I feed it things that's not great, it's going to limit its functioning. But I can also change what I put into it through actions, through deliberate behaviors. Right, I can work through that resistance to start to format it in a different way that aligns with where I want to go.
Speaker 2:But I think that's probably the biggest challenge, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I love that and I think part of it is right. I think I've read it's like 60 to 70,000 thoughts, you know, on any given day, and so I think that's part of the reason why we do give them so much power. Is that because they're happening so frequently, right, we're inundated all the time, um, with information and stimulation and thoughts, and it's, you know, especially now, with everybody being on their phones and all the social media, right, and it's you get that kind of thing, that false sense of what you're talking about, which is then that becomes your reality, um, when it's really not, but it seems like it is, um, and so I think, it's hard, almost have to get like outside of yourself, um yourself, and take a step back and almost observe You're observing yourself, back thoughts, and then realizing how much of it is really just garbage and they're just thoughts, they aren't reality.
Speaker 1:But I think it's easy to get stuck in that. For me anyway, it was easy to get stuck into that story and then, like you said, it's easier, like I found reading the books, it was very safe, right.
Speaker 1:Reading a new book, taking notes, listening to a podcast very easy, very safe, no risk. Nobody knew, even knew I was doing it and that's it right. But if you start putting yourself out there right, if you start talking to people or you say, hey, I want to do this, then you get met with doubt or you start actually doing it or trying it. It's not going to go that well at first. Typically then you're like, oh, I'm not any good at it. And then it's like this, this cycle it's very hard, it's very hard to get out. Um, do you work specifically on like trying to get people from thinking and their thoughts to taking action? Do you have any specific steps you have them take or smaller steps to get started? Or how do you kind of help them start moving forward?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. So, like you said, 60,000 to 70,000 thoughts a day. Our mind is always talking. Thoughts a day, like our mind is always talking, there's always a conversation going, but 95 to 97% of the decisions we make on a daily basis are actually happening on autopilot. So we're not consciously aware of them. So, yes, those thoughts exist, but we're not actually aware of a the fact that they're happening, be what they really are, and C how they're impacting the way we're showing up. Right, we might be like, oh, we just don't feel like it, but we don't.
Speaker 2:We rarely again invest our finite energy and focus on trying to understand what might those thoughts be like? What might be the thought behind this emotion that I'm experiencing? Like, what might be the thought behind this emotion that I'm experiencing? So that's usually our entry point is to just try to expand self-awareness. So if we know that usually we're just on this hamster wheel and we're feeling our feelings and we're acting in response to them, we use like a really simple cue which is just start to pay attention to your emotions, right? So any red flag emotion whether it's doubt, sadness, insecurity, anxiety, fear it doesn't have to be huge, but just like that smaller sense that can creep up in us, pay attention to it and identify, okay, like, what, contextually, has triggered this feeling in me, right?
Speaker 2:So let's say, like, I get a short email from a boss and I feel, you know what am I feeling physically and emotionally? Okay, I feel my heart rates elevated, like my shoulders are tensing up, my palms are a little sweaty. You know what thoughts are accompanying this experience, like, are they mad at me? They're probably mad at me. What did I do? I obviously messed something up, you know. And what's triggered this? Well, while I received this short email. So, even just starting on becoming aware of how this trigger is landing in our experience and the thoughts that are around it, then we can start to get curious about, okay, what might be the belief that's ingrained in this mindset here, that a short email from your boss means, right, that I've dropped the ball on something, right, that I'm not good enough, right, and then we can kind of, we dig in through there. But, yeah, I think that's the starting point for most of our clients is the emotional intelligence tool of just what are you feeling? Why are you feeling it?
Speaker 1:Get curious and then you collect the intel and then, through that intel you can start to identify what the beliefs are and then you can reprogram them to the beliefs that you want to have moving forward. But I do see more of it. I wish it was taught earlier in schools and then I wish it was taught. You know, when I was working in corporations they always made us do.
Speaker 1:there were like the yearly trainings right, it was you know, like bribery, what constitutes bribes, data governance, cybersecurity, like they always had us do that like every year, which are good, they're needed. I understand it, but there were never any. On emotional intelligence and I was like this should be pushed out almost like quarterly, definitely twice a year, right, because you can't have enough practice or reminders about it, because it affects all parts of your life, right, every relationship work, partner, kids, friends doesn't matter. Um, the higher your eq is, typically the higher your relationships are going to be, which then is you're going to feel better about your life. Like that makes logical sense. But yet that was never really trained. I don't remember taking any, or if I did, it was very limited on any type of emotional, uh, intelligence. So it's really interesting like kind of this one thing that ties everything together was not. I took probably 15 anti-bribery classes which, like I said, I mean it's good.
Speaker 1:You need to know like okay, I can't pay this guy, I can't take these tickets. Like, all right, I get it. But, then nothing on this one thing that would actually improve, like everyone's experience. So I think it's interesting. So hopefully that continues. I hope it continues. I see more of it. There's more books available and more courses.
Speaker 2:I think that would just be really helpful for so many people. Yeah, and there's I mean there's so many more research, findings and studies. I think, listen, as the world, the working world, grows in this place of rapid innovation right, so much change, so much uncertainty about what's to come. I think emotions are becoming even more heightened and the need to be able to navigate them effectively increases with that as well. Right, and yeah, I think the need is so great because, at the end of the day, our learning doesn't drive our behavior. So, you're right, there's tons of training out there on how to run a performance checklist, like how to do this, like here, you do these things and you'll be great, but the learning doesn't drive behavior.
Speaker 2:Much like why we read these books, we don't act on it. Like it's our beliefs that drive our behavior, right, Like, does our brain translate this situation is safe or dangerous? Right? Does our brain translate this opportunity as something that's going to bring us pleasure or something that's going to cause us pain? Because whatever that association is, that's in the brain that's going to determine the behavior moving forward. So, unless we question that belief, right, and we we start to change it, the behavior will continue, and that's why what's the stat. It the stat, I think it's $365 billion is spent a year on leadership training, of which 75% is rated as completely ineffective because it doesn't address mindset right. It just hands out these checklists, which are great, which someone might be jazzed about and use for a day or two, but then when the stress goes up or the demands go up, what does our brain do? It resorts back to what it's familiar with.
Speaker 1:I just did the quick math. So we're wasting about looks like about 270, we'll call it 275 billion, Then we're just completely wasting.
Speaker 2:No, big deal yeah, yeah it is a us stat, by the way right, we'll just write that off.
Speaker 1:Um, we won't talk about it.
Speaker 2:Uh, that's that's thing, that's yeah I have a lot of thoughts on that anyway um, do you have like a go-to?
Speaker 1:is there a go-to training? Uh, whether it's a book, a course on mindset, emotional intelligence. Do you have one that you prefer or that you use, whether it's professionally or in your personal life, to friends, family, whatever? Do you have anything that you really really, really like the way it's laid out?
Speaker 2:So many. I think the Mindset 101, the best starting book is probably Mindset by Carol Dweck. That is probably the best starting point is probably Mindset by. Carol Dweck. Yeah, that is probably the best starting point for anyone who's interested in getting an understanding of, like, the foundational groundwork for the concept, how it shows up, how it impacts us. Yeah, I'd say that one.
Speaker 1:Okay, I read that one a long time ago. I probably should reread it. It was really quite a while ago and I remember the thing that struck me on that. It was that story a long time ago. I probably should reread it. Uh, it was really quite a while ago, um, and I remember, like I remember the thing that struck me on that. It was that story I think it's the beginning of the book with the kids very young kids. It was like a puzzle or something, um, and they divided them into two. Uh, I can't remember the all the details, but the. It was like the harder the puzzle than the harder they tried and the growth like really showing like the growth mindset because we always think we want it easy.
Speaker 2:I'm screwing the story up, but you get the point.
Speaker 1:But like the less challenging and easy was less, and then the harder one prompted like more effort because it was harder. Because I think we sometimes avoid like the harder stuff, right, and that's actually really what we should be wanting to do. That's what I always tell my son. He's always worried about who they're playing. He's obsessed with their opponents. I'm like do you have different? Do you dial your game in and out? You're that good that you can be like oh, I'm 80% for this opponent, but I'm 50 here. Just play hard against whoever it is, it doesn't matter, but you against whoever it is, like I don't, it doesn't matter, but so, but you should embrace, you should want to embrace. You don't want it to be challenging like 24 7, but you want to do hard things, because that's where the growth really lies.
Speaker 2:If you're always doing what you already know how to do, like you're not, you're not making any progress yeah, so, and it's true, right, there's there's been a couple studies done recently I would butcher it if I tried to name anything but neuroscience-based studies about a part of our brain that is actually fueled by doing hard things, right, because now, right, there's such a rise in anxiety, depression, the sense of overwhelm. But I sometimes wonder, is it because so many facets of life have become so simple for us that the need for resilience, right, the need to push through things has become so limited that we've become stagnant? And there's a part of us that's really craving that, right, that is that thrives on that. And again, if you think evolutionarily, like that makes sense, we did have to fight for our survival once upon a time as a species and I think finding ways to activate that part of our brain, to fuel it, is good for our well being. And it's interesting you're talking about your son because I'm thinking about, again, the best athletes in the world.
Speaker 2:When I first came to Toronto, I was working at a prep school. Connor McDavid was there Amazing kid, and the kid outworked everyone every day and I think the but had a great attitude about it. But I think that's part of what makes the best athletes the best is that they are. They're never comparing themselves to anyone else. They're comparing themselves to their own best, and when you do that, there is always room for growth and development, right, whereas a lot of kids like we want to talk social media and social comparison. We can fall into that where we're looking at other people and we're comparing ourselves, and it can either be debilitating or it can be this false sense of bravado that well, I'm so much better than them that why do I need to try?
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah no, I love that. What's it? That's funny you mentioned McDavid because we've been. We don't watch a ton of regular season hockey, but we do watch the playoffs. We like watching playoff hockey.
Speaker 1:Um, I never played it, but I've watched it enough that I at least understand. You know most of the basics, uh, anyway. So I I'd never heard him. I'd never heard McDavid talk um, watched him play a bunch, but I'd never seen an interview or anything. But, for whatever reason, we had it on when they won game five the other night.
Speaker 1:And then, um, the woman I don't know her name, but she was interviewing and I was really blown away. Like he was so humble, uh, he was so gracious, deflected, I think. He had a goal and three assists in that game. Um, but he was just very, he downplayed all of it, uh, gave credit to the team, um, you know, talked about going back for game six and like it was, like it was really just very normal, like it was like we're gonna go back home and like we're gonna try to win and then we'll come back here for game seven.
Speaker 1:Um, like there's, it's still gonna be a tough game. Like florida is not going to get worse in two days. Like they've lost two in a row, but you know they're going to be ready for us. Um, I was really. It was really impressive. So it's interesting that you talked about seeing him when he was, you know, younger and not as well known, but that he was humble, and then how hard he was working. And it's interesting, right, that's what always makes the greats the greats is that they're blessed with this incredible, like talent but then they match it with this like unmatched work ethic, right like jordan gretzky, kobe, tiger, um.
Speaker 1:And then that's that's like the unbeatable combination, right when you're, when you already have the most talent and you're out working, everyone like you know, um, and that's what I try to get my kids to buy into is like you got to put in the work. Like that's, it doesn't matter how much talent you have. There's a lot of people with talent, but what are you going to do?
Speaker 2:with it.
Speaker 1:And that's, I think, and, like you said, with society, and it's getting easier all the time with AI and you can get food delivered in an hour and Amazon packages you know, same day or next day almost every time, and on demand, everything. It's interesting, right, Like we're getting so comfortable and but yet our brain doesn't want it. It's like it's like this conflict. It's really interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and again, like thinking about Connor or just any high performer, it's this, this sense of intrinsic motivation, right Matched with a growth mindset, that they always have a belief in their capabilities and their competencies to a point where they're not dependent on the external results to validate them. So that fuels their motivation and their performance sustainably. Ironically and most people, whether it's corporate or even in sport, they rely more heavily on that external validation, right, like, oh, we win, I feel great, Look at us for the best. Oh, we lose, oh, we're the worst. Right, I can't do anything and we ride that roller coaster where it. To me, that just highlights the importance of having that intrinsic motivation like what matters to me? Why am I here? Why am I doing this? What am I certain that I'm capable of? Because, ironically, that's when you spend more time at the top of the coaster, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and you smooth it out right. It's not the big huge dips of the highs and lows, and that kind of goes back to the process and the journey. If you're focused on learning, improving, doing your best on a consistent basis, it's much easier to smooth out the ride and then the wins and losses or whatever the setbacks they're not as much because you're not as, like you said, you're not tied to that.
Speaker 1:But if you're only tied to the end part, then you get the swings and then things can get sideways on you pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:I used to have a coach that said no parades, no funerals.
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:Stuck with me.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. Maybe they should start having funerals for teams that really perform poorly, like the Mavericks. Maybe the Mavericks have a funeral.
Speaker 1:We'll shift a little bit. I can talk mindset and this kind of talk, mindset and and this kind of stuff. I love this kind of stuff. Um, I mean, I've always kind of loved it. And then doing the races that I've done and now with my kids getting older and then trying to like impart, like what I kind of learned to them, and sometimes I feel like I'm doing a very poor job with that. Uh, so you're like let's ever sink in. Will they ever listen? I, I don't know. Um, we'll switch. I'd like to talk a little bit about your kind of recent it ties into the mindset. Um, your kind of recent body transformation. I know you've lost some weight. Um, I'd just love to hear you don't have to get super specific, whatever you're comfortable sharing, but just kind of like what prompted it and then like kind of what mindset tactics you've used and you've had some success here, you know, recently. I'd like to hear more about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, oh boy, where do I start Speaking of roller coasters? You know, came home from school, was an athlete, got right into personal training actually when I came home from school. So I would say I was more fit in my early 20s than I was even as a college level athlete. And then I got into athletic coaching and at the onset of that I think prioritization of self started to take a backseat. A bit right, and that transition from life is like an active athlete where you're at the gym and you're competing on a regular basis to you're not doing that.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes what we underestimate is the impact of the other lifestyle choices that you would make as an athlete, versus if you don't have that level of activity, that level of competition as a normal part of your routine, the other parts of your routine have to change as well. Right so, around lifestyle, around sleeping habits, around nutrition and also as an athlete, a lot of that stuff was done for you. Everything was regimented right Around the competitive schedule. When you leave that environment, you're up to your own devices to try to recreate that as best as possible. So I stepped into coaching and again, very much at that time, before I had started mindset work, had some people pleasing tendencies, had some like overly servant leadership type qualities, where it was really easy for me to say, okay, what do you need, what do you need, and put whatever I needed on the backseat. So it was a bit of a slow burn and then I lost a bit but then I gained it back.
Speaker 2:So basically, yeah, following the pandemic, again being home with the two boys working from home, there was a lot going on and again I think the challenge is it doesn't happen overnight, right, all of a sudden you're like looking in the mirror and you're like, okay, like who is this? Like where did this person person come? So, come from.
Speaker 2:So at my heaviest I was probably just over 230 um, and now I am 198 so I've lost a bit, but I've also transitioned just my body, like in terms of my muscle mass, my body fat percentage, and it was important to me to track all of those things, not just the number on the scale in terms of the transformation. But I think for me, a big part of it is leveraging, like looking at it and being like, okay, right now I'm making this decision because my brain is saying this is a, this is a pleasurable decision. Right, this is, this is good for me. But is it and I think for me it was really asking myself, okay, if this is the decision I make every day for the next five to ten years, where will I be? Like, if it's already brought me to this point, where will I be if I continue to do it? I think for us, from a mindset perspective, being able to bring that long-term pain into the present moment decision is really, really beneficial and also being able to bring the long term pleasure of making that difficult decision into the moment of decision is helpful.
Speaker 2:I've got two young kids. I wanted to be active, I wanted to be engaged in their life, I want to be around as long as I can for them, but also, given the work I do, like I want to make sure that I am leading by example, right, and I think there was a little bit of hypocrisy sneaking in, just in terms of caring for, like, my physical self. Now, if we talk beliefs and where all of these tendencies and behaviors come from, they're often learned from our environments. Like my parents, I love them. They're incredible people. They did the best they could with what they knew, but neither of them ever prioritized their physical health or fitness. Right, like nutritionally, it wasn't let's eat clean. So there were habits that developed that my brain just became comfortable with. That to break took deliberate work in action. It was starting small, it was creating intentions and holding myself accountable to those intentions. Again, we think a lot about what we want to do. There's tremendous power to like taking a pen and putting it down on a piece of paper every morning. So you're not only thinking about it, but you are writing it, you are reading it out loud, you are revisiting it Because, again, the more you expose your brain to this new idea or concept, the more the brain's going to say, okay, maybe this is important because we keep seeing it and hearing it and feeling it. So for me like the intention setting was really important. I've reached a point now where it's just habitual, so, like I go to workout class every morning, I drink well.
Speaker 2:The one key change for me this time around, as opposed to last time, was nutrition, because that had been the final part of the game, that I had not really broken from some of the bad eating habits and patterns.
Speaker 2:So for me it was the action of just I did a fast, I did well, a cleanse for a bit and then I no refined sugar, no alcohol, no caffeine, like I just quit cold turkey. It's kind of like I hear a lot of people quit smoking in that way, like it's like the people that have the most success are just like nope, just not going to do it. So I did it and again, thankfully for all the mindset training I had done up to that point, I was reminding myself, hey, like the emotion, the thought, it's not me. And it's great, because now I have this lived experience that proves that in another avenue for me, around the nutrition piece, that I can build new habits, I can create new levels of comfort with new ideas, new things, as long as I'm willing to stick it out. So it's been probably about four months now and I'm feeling in a pretty good place. The journey continues, but I can certainly say like my comfort and my reality has shifted as a result of it.
Speaker 1:No, that's amazing. That was gonna be. My question is how long? So four months, I mean, that's pretty big. That's a pretty, pretty remarkable transformation, and in a pretty short period of time, so I love that. I'm so happy that you did that. I think you know one of the things with talking to my wife about it, and you know she shares stories too. I think you know one of the things talking to my wife about it, and you know she shares stories too. I think it's challenging.
Speaker 1:You get spread too thin, like when you have, especially when your kids are young, and then you're working full time and then you're managing, you know your relationship, and then just like all of those things and then, like what you mentioned there at the beginning, like you just start to put yourself on the back burner and you're, just because you have there's so much caretaking right, you got to make sure that kids are taken care of and like all these things that go into the family and the household and then work, and like it just becomes a lot and so it's just easier to just write. It's easier to eat junk, um. It's easier to not exercise Um, not that you don't want to, but you're just like, eh, I don't have time, or I can only do 10 minutes, that's not enough, so I'll skip it today. And then that turns into a week and then, like you said, over time that becomes a new habit and then you're taking care of everyone else.
Speaker 1:You kind of slide yourself on the priority scale and then, like you said, one day you're like obviously it's harder and more set in your ways and body metabolism and just like all the things right. So I think it's a real challenge for, I think, a lot of people out there. So I'm happy that you're doing it. I saw, I know you shared that photo on LinkedIn semi recently. It was like the first full body photo you had done like in a while with one of your kids.
Speaker 1:So I think it's awesome, so I'm so happy that you're doing it and seeing the success and, like you said, kind of living, you know, the example for others.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, I think it's, it's so important we do that and you're right. I think if we're waiting until we feel like it, we'll be waiting forever. Right, and I think, just going back to one thing you had said, like not enough time, and you're right, when you have little kids and you're working full-time and you have a house to care for, like the responsibilities grow and grow and grow. But again it's like, okay, what's the cost of sacrificing the time for me? Because I think a lot of times, again our brain, often the beliefs when we're young, we, a lot of us, are conditioned to prioritize the needs of others above ourselves, like I need to please this person or do what they say or what they need from me in order to receive love and affection.
Speaker 2:That may not be true, but again, our brain, at that level of development, might develop that idea and that will stay with us for years. And that's why so many adults struggle with people pleasing perfectionism, imposter syndrome, all of these things. But the whole idea of not enough time, like I can't tell you how many times I hear that from people and I've heard it from my own mind like oh, you just don't have enough time, we're not getting any more time. Like no one. Like you know, the magic time fairy is not going to come in and be like here's three more hours, darling, do with them as you wish, like it's not happening, right, it's all fixed, yeah, so I think part of it is accepting that, because we will always feel helpless as long as we're in this mentality of wanting something that we're never going to have right.
Speaker 2:We can't create that right. So, rather than spend our time wanting something that we can't control, how can we take control of what we can in terms of the time that we're allotted? And for me, that was a big part of the shift in saying, okay, two things what can I do in terms of what I can control when it comes to time? And two, what's the cost of all of these other things that are really important to me if I don't start to prioritize this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I love that. And the long-term thinking, like you mentioned previously, is I do that a lot with my business, as I kind of started this online thing and my wife is a little bit more focused on like the now and like the next. Like six months, which I totally get Totally normal, and I'm thinking like five to 10 years, like I have a five to 10 year plan. So we got to get through these leaner times so I can build this, because it won't happen in five or six months, but I think it can happen in 10 years.
Speaker 1:Same applies to what you're talking about, which is like, if I stay on this track, if I'm headed down this path and I'm here now and I don't make any changes, then what does it look like in five to 10 years? And then the flip side is if I make all these changes, then what's that? And you have that parallel vision. So I think, think it's important. It's like the daily actions, what there's like a quote, it's like execute daily, plan monthly, think yearly and something in decades, something like that. But it's yeah, you have to have that vision, you have to have the long-term vision and then, so that those daily actions and monthly then actions lead you right to that, yeah, where you want to go or where you think you want to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, and even just what you were saying about your wife. That's a really good point, because, again, when we're talking about our own mindset like, what do I believe about myself, my capabilities, what's my reality, whether it's at work and you're working under someone or with other people, or whether it's at home where, yeah, like you're living and actually building a life with other people the question of how do you, how do you, find peace amidst that if you're with people that maybe don't have the same sort of mindset or the same sort of outlook on things? I think it's um, that's sometimes something we overlook that can be important to pay attention to as well.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm learning that it's just very difficult for people that aren't in the online business space and when you don't live it every day, like I do and many others do, and you're used to the traditional work which I did for a long time and she does a traditional job it's just very hard.
Speaker 1:It's very hard. You've been societally programmed to think like the only way you can make money is to work for a company that gives you a paycheck on a regular basis, and that's how most of society works, right, and that's fine. That works for most people, but it didn't work for me, and so I'm like I'm finally on this path that does work, but I have to kind of figure it out. There's a lot to figure out, so we have to have patience. And so, yeah, you're right, it is balancing the short term, where, like, we need to have certain things happen, versus like, the long term, which is where, like, you want to go. But yeah, and it's not just business, like you said, I mean, if it was body transformation, but your partner or whatever family weren't supportive, obviously it'd be much more difficult, you know, for you to do it, because you kind of feel like you're fighting them and yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah so yeah it is. It is tricky for sure.
Speaker 2:But I will tell you because, again, when I was doing like, no refined sugar, no, what? Like, when I did a pretty extreme transition in my diet for a while, there, they weren't eating the same as me, right, I think there was a version of me in the past that would have used that as an excuse, right? Well, they're not doing it.
Speaker 2:So maybe like, or would have been more heavily influenced by, well, if they're all doing it, well, maybe I'll just have what they're having right Like it's easy to do that, and the same thing happens in corporate spaces where, let's say, you are a human centric leader and your leader is not, and we again in our mindset, want to be true to ourselves, but we can easily become distracted or focused on the things that the other person isn't doing that aligns with us and therefore we fall out of showing up in alignment with what matters the most to us. So, like it's so important to be able to protect what matters the most to us, important to be able to protect what matters the most to us without overstepping those boundaries right or without taking the behaviors or the things that other people do personally or feeling like we have to act in alignment with what they're doing. So I think it's easy for us to concede into that, whether it's like willingly or, you know, with resistance, just because again, a part of our brain might find that easier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see that. I totally get that, especially in the corporate environment where you're afraid to speak out or you're afraid to do something different, to go against the grain, because what I learned is that every time I did that, it was always met with. The negative consequences were always the result, right, Like no one wanted my honest opinion.
Speaker 1:Nobody wanted me to tell them that that idea wasn't going to work, even though when I had all the reasons why I wouldn't. They don't want to hear it Like. They want you to stay quiet. They want you to stay in your lane.
Speaker 1:Like don't speak up, and I always had a hard time doing that, and so, yeah, I totally get that. As we wind down, I do want to talk music. I see you have the guitar in the back and I believe you can play it, so, yeah, I'd love to hear about what kind of music you like. Learning to play the guitar, which is something I've tried off and on for way too long and have made very little progress. But, yeah, I'm curious. I love music and I could talk music all day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I actually that bad boy right there is the one that I got when I went away to university, so I hadn't learned, but I've always loved music. So I got that, I brought it with me and, thanks to chord, findcom and ultimate guitar, I kind of slowly taught myself some of the basics, just so I could play the songs that I like. And I stuck with it. I mean, obviously, the last few years I have not played it as much, but I've started to carve out, you know, at least 1520 minutes in the week where I can pick it up and just play around, and for me it was. I think I realized it was really just a form of expression and finding my voice. I've always found music can, like, connect people in a way that words alone can't, so I've always appreciated it for the role it's played in my life. I did used to go to open mics and I did a bit of that. So I went to a few in New York City when I was at school and then back in Toronto again in my early 20s.
Speaker 2:None of that anymore. Hung that up. No one wants to see a 38 year old woman strumming the guitar what's?
Speaker 1:what was your go-to song when you did that?
Speaker 2:oh boy, I had some different ones. Uh, wagon wheel. We played wagon wheel. Old pro medicine show I don't know that one, okay, um, I mean oasis of course wonderwall classics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I did that once or twice. I wrote some of my own songs so I would play those as well. But yeah, in terms of preferences, I like the Lumineers, I like Monsters and Men. I used to like Kings of Leon a lot, so more I guess that kind of genre. But I have an appreciation for literally every kind of music, except for, maybe, heavy metal. I can't get heavy metal, Got to draw a line somewhere.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, that's great. You and my wife would be very aligned with, uh, with music she likes, like lumineers and, um, uh, drawn a blank on, um, I can't think of the other band name, but it's in that similar kind of more like a little slower independent acoustic rock. Yeah, yeah, like she likes that kind of stuff. I like the heavier stuff, um, so the like not some, um, I mean, I love all the classic rock and I love all the alternatives. So you know the who, zeppelin, the stones, pearl, jam, sound garden, allison, chains, um, like all of that kind of stuff. Hendrix, like I'm just a big, like very traditional, like blues rock. Give me the.
Speaker 1:You know guitar, bass, drum, lead singer set up um, that's my favorite, and you don't hear it much anymore. It's very hard to find new bands that play that style of music like. It's not necessarily that rock and roll is dead, but it's not popular, right? It's not on the radio, um you know all the pop stuff and um rap and all that kind of stuff. Um, so my kids funny, so my kids listen to the old stuff in my car so they know that kind of stuff yeah, they listen to the new stuff in my wife's car, so they're actually pretty well versed like nice
Speaker 1:most of the different genres, um, but they get it in like two totally different ways. In fact, there was a kid uh, it was when my oldest son was last year in the seventh grade. He was the only kid in his class who knew who jimmy hendrix was, and I was blown away. I was like how, how do you not know that? Like, doesn't everybody know who he is? Yeah, yeah. And then the teacher was like wow, like, yeah, you're it. He was like, oh, my dad would kill me if I didn't know who that was. Like I wouldn't be allowed to come home, that's hilarious.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I've seen Pearl Jam, I think 14 times live.
Speaker 2:And then we're seeing them.
Speaker 1:They were supposed to come to Indy. Last year. They actually canceled the day of the show, like within five or six hours of like gates opening they had an illness or something.
Speaker 1:So they're coming back in August and so myself and my oldest son are going. I'm not sure if my wife and youngest will go, so we're going there. I took him to a Smashing Pumpkins show last year, nice, just to give him, you know, some experience. We saw back last summer, so they've seen a few, they've seen a few live shows. But, um, yeah, music's a big, big part of our lives and, like you said, it's very transformational and across, uh, kind of all the different, you know, all the different lines that that separate us. You know, music can do a good job of bringing that, closing those gaps yeah, it really can't.
Speaker 2:when our boys were little, we started having dance parties once a week where we just put music on and we had like a strobe light, just like hang out, and we were just actually literally just talking about it this morning that we're going to bring it back because they both are interested in doing it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, no, it's great. Well, this is great. I appreciate all your time. Any final thoughts or parting words? And then how can people find you more about your elite performance coaching, or find you on LinkedIn or your own website or whatever you have? Feel free to plug that.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, thank you, david. It's always a pleasure to speak with you. Very grateful for our conversation today. If anyone wants to find me, yeah, linkedin's probably the best place. Just jump on and you can send me a direct message through there. Margaret Jennings, happy to have any conversations or answer any questions you might have from our conversation today.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, this is great. Thanks for your time insight. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.