The Real You
1:1 Long-Form Interviews with Interesting People Doing Amazing Things
In-depth discussion of people's journeys to tap into their full potential and find ways to be the truest version of themselves.
The Real You
EP 22: Creating Experiences through Storytelling with Renee Lynn Frojo
This episode discusses the journey of Renee Lynn Frojo, exploring her evolution from aspiring marine biologist to accomplished writer and storyteller.
We discuss the power of storytelling, the importance of connection, and insights from her exotic in-person retreats centered on personal and professional growth.
• Exploring the journey into writing and early inspirations
• Discussing the disillusionment with politics and Washington, D.C.
• The impact of travel on creativity and adaptability
• Importance of community in personal and professional spaces
• Overview of retreats and the transformative experiences they offer
• Emphasizing the value of storytelling and finding your unique voice
Renee's LinkedIn Profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/renee-lynn-frojo/
Renee's website:
https://www.reneelynnfrojo.com/
David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/
David's Website: https://davidjyoung.me/
Welcome to the Real you Podcast. I'm your host, david Young, and this is episode number 22. This podcast discusses tapping into your full potential and finding ways to be the truest version of yourself. Today, I'm joined by Renee Lynn Frohjo, a writer, storyteller, relatively new cat mom and, along with being a real mom and also a recent retreat host. We will discuss her journey, why she loves writing, content creation and what she's learned along the way. So, renee which I'll explain in a second thanks for coming back and doing this again and coming on the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 1:So we recorded this the first time on September 12th I believe, and it was a great episode and I was very much looking forward to getting it out about a month or so ago. And then I learned as I started to produce it that it had a terrible echo. And you helped me, you gave me a referral and he tried to fix it and we did a bunch of work on it and we listened to it and my wife listened to it and we all just kind of decided that it just wasn't going to work. So here we are on December 20th you know nothing going on as we wrap up the year and five days from Christmas. Well, we're going to cram this episode in. So thanks for carving out time again.
Speaker 2:You know, the opportunity to chat with you is one I will always take.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate that, thank you. So we'll kind of start where we did the first time, which is obviously you're a writer and that's kind of the bulk of your business and what you've done for a long time. So how did you get into writing? Did you write as a kid, did you?
Speaker 2:pick it up later, like kind of talk about your writing background and kind of where that came from. Yeah, I was always writing. As a kid I was always writing in journals and notebooks and I wanted to be a marine biologist. When I was a kid that's what I wanted to do. I was like no-transcript was the right brain stuff.
Speaker 2:The creative writing you know, literature, reading, comprehension and all that. So I leaned into that and it was something that to an extent, happened to me. I went to school for international relations after deciding I wasn't going to be a marine biologist. I just you know, maybe I didn't have the brain for it. I wanted to live and work internationally. But again in school, a couple of professors identified me as a good writer. They said I should take a journalism class as a way to potentially work abroad and travel internationally and do that without having to take the state exam. And I did that and I started my career in journalism. And ever since I declared I was going to be a writer, everyone has given me a notebook for Christmas and or my birthday. And I'm a terrible journaler. I got so many.
Speaker 1:You're set up for future success Once you start journaling. You don't have to buy any.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I think it's good that you listen, because I've had people on the show, and myself included, that have been told at a relatively young age like hey, you're talented in this, or you're skilled in this, or I think you have a future in this, and we've all just ignored it.
Speaker 1:We just feel like yeah, whatever, and just keep your head down going on like this other path, and then, like 20 years later, you're like you know that teacher or that counselor or like my mom or whoever said that to me, like they were actually spot on. So good for you for actually tapping into that.
Speaker 2:In this case it worked out, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think I don't know if we talked about it last time. So how long did you spend in Cancun, like how long did you? You were born there and then you lived there for how long?
Speaker 2:I lived there until I was eight.
Speaker 1:Okay, my mom remarried. Where'd you go from there?
Speaker 2:Alabama.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Auburn, Alabama. So we moved from south of the border to the south and I was there through high school.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then you went to college on the East Coast, right.
Speaker 2:College in Boston, first job in Washington DC, backpacked around the world for a year with my ex-husband and landed in California, which is where I've been ever since.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I know we talked about last time. Talk about a little bit. You spent time on Capitol Hill and you told a really interesting story about I don't remember was it Pharma or one of the senators, and kind of the behind the scenes. Talk about that.
Speaker 2:Capitol Hill. Yeah, yeah, I remember the feeling of getting my press badge. I was so proud of myself. I was like 21 years old and I had this press badge that made me feel and look so important. You know, gave me access to some of the most important decision makers in the country and I was really like bright eyed and bushy tailed and excited to learn all about the inner workings of, you know, congress and our government, how decisions are made, laws are, you know, passed, and it only took a few, a few moments of sitting in those meetings on Capitol Hill to realize how dysfunctional the whole system actually is and the people in charge making the decisions.
Speaker 2:For the most part, there's definitely some altruistic servants of the people that are doing that job because it's what they're meant to do, but a lot of people are just doing it because they're power hungry and interested and self interested and you know, like, like being in the decision making do. But a lot of people are just doing it because they're power hungry and interested and self-interested and you know, like being in the decision-making seat, but they didn't know anything that they were talking about. It was their aides that were whispering things into their ears that were, you know, informing them on what they should be doing, because that's what their constituents want. And I was like, and that is how decisions are made, you know, and that's how our arguments are won. And so it became pretty jaded pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:Pretty quickly, yeah, yeah. So it reminds me that we should have been asking all these times like who are your aides? What are your? Who are you going to hire? Who's going? To be the young person that's going to do all your research. What are their, what are their politics and influences? Cause that's actually that's a better question.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I don't know. It's, it's a world, it's an interesting world, but and sometimes I miss it but for the most part it's just, you know, full of bs, really like any world that you enter into and uh, it's, yeah, it's hard to find it's always different right once you get once you get behind the scenes of almost anything yeah, you see, like the inner workings, it's almost never like exactly what you thought and it's supposed to be really good.
Speaker 1:A lot of times it isn't, and even some things are supposed to be really bad. You're like, ah, it's not as bad, but that's interesting. How long were you there? How long did you do that?
Speaker 2:How long did I do that? Three years, not very long. I met my ex-husband when I was pretty young to have this abroad experience and adventure, and so when we met each other, we decided that we were going to quit our jobs and do it. There's no better time to do it before we got serious before we really thought about setting down roots anywhere, establishing a family. We quit our jobs and traveled for a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where all did you guys go?
Speaker 2:Australia, southeast Asia, india, which is where he's originally from, has family South America, a quick, brief stint in Europe, and then we ended in Mexico where we got married.
Speaker 1:Full circle.
Speaker 2:Full circle.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, and you guys hit all those places in a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was blitz. It made me realize how much you can live on. It made me realize how much you can live on like that. You can just live with so little, I mean like with a backpack, you know, and five outfits and a toothbrush and a laptop, and you can live a full, wonderful life free of all this stuff. So, yeah, we were totally free to bounce around from place to place.
Speaker 1:That's cool.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I would put up everywhere I went I did need to feel like it was a little bit like a home and my home and my place. So even if we were in a hostel for one night and I was in a bunk bed you know, in a room full of bunk beds with like 20 other 20 something year olds I would put up every night my little photos and my blanket and my scarf that I used as a blanket and then it made it, made it mine felt like home I could not have done that.
Speaker 1:So even the traveling at that age, I don't think I would have done it I don't know creature comfort yeah, just I don't know. I was an only child, we didn't travel a lot. You know we take like a trip to florida or something, go see my aunt in pennsylvania. But like the thought of like international travel would have been, I think, too overwhelming, and especially to do it not necessarily by myself. I know you're with somebody, but I don't know, I think I would have been too scared.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think one thing about having moved so young from one country to a new country and I lost my dad when I was young and my brother I just went through a lot of change in my early years and I think it's made me a person who thrives on change and newness and novelty. And it's a great thing because I'm very adaptable, but it can also, especially in business, be a very hard thing because I'm always looking for that novelty and needing change, and so it's been really hard, and the biggest thing I've had to work on as a business owner particular, is like seeing things through and just being happy with what I've built and and writing it out for a little bit longer and not constantly changing it up.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, Well, you're not alone there, you know. I think there's a lot of us, especially once you're doing it for a while, you find something that works and then you want to change it instead of just, instead of just keep doing it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like is it going? Well, don't mess with it. I don't know, I'm kind of bored.
Speaker 1:I can do more. I could do a little bit more of this. Yeah, I think that's a little bit human nature and then, like you said, if that's kind of what you got adjusted to, you know pretty early on, then it's kind of in your DNA.
Speaker 2:So, it's a really transformative year in all the ways, but the main one that comes to mind, I guess, is I got, we got. We didn't get officially married. The plan was to get married at the end of that year in mexico and cancun, bring all our family and friends together that we hadn't seen in a year and kind of celebrate, you know, the culmination of this transformative year and starting this new chapter. Um, but because we were in India and all the Indian family wasn't going to be able to make it to Mexico, they were like let's have a little pre-wedding, a little ceremony here, which was 200 people because it's India, so it was bigger than her actual wedding and I mean it was memorable for so many reasons.
Speaker 2:But one of the things is I was, for the first time, really, in a situation where I was the minority and felt that, but it was different. I was being celebrated, but I was like I had never felt so out of my element. You know, the only white woman in this room of 200 people and, you know, dressed in clothing that I'd never worn, with my hair done in a way that had never been done, listening to a language I didn't understand, and celebrating, you know, a unity like celebrating, like this new event, and it is really the first time I truly felt like an outsider, but not in a way that felt lonely. It felt it was just. I was just like this is what I must feel like. This is what I must feel like to be the only person in the room, you know, who looks like me or understands me or, you know, has been through some of the things I've been through. Yeah, um, so I just took that in, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean. I mean mean, especially at such a young age, I'm sure that was great perspectives for later on in your life to have that, to have that feeling and kind of know what that's like, because I don't think many of us do. Yeah, and that's pretty cool. When did your family, like your family, find out that that happened? You tell them when you officially got married, or did you tell them like five years later?
Speaker 2:yeah, I told them when it was happening that would have been fun if you just kept it from him. I just kept it a secret.
Speaker 1:Like three years later. Here are the photos.
Speaker 2:No, no family secrets from my end. Lots of family secrets on my other family. Everyone else in my family thinks that keeping secrets is a good idea until they realize it's not. But I've never been that person. Opposite problem Too much of an open book.
Speaker 1:Got it. So you got back, you got married and then did you guys settle down after that in San Francisco or did you go there later?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, we settled down in San Francisco. We were on a boat Two days before the wedding. Everyone was asking where are we going to go after this? You can go back to DC, or you can go to Boston, where his parents were. You can go to Alabama. Hell, no, where are you going to go? We don't know. And a friend said well, I have a place, I have an extra bedroom in my house. You can come stay, stay a while, look for a job. And I told kanishka, my ex-husband, I was like I always wanted to go to california. Let's extend this adventure for one year, let's go california and then, you know, probably end up back on the east coast and then 14 years later never left never left now frisco is a good time.
Speaker 1:I've only been out there once. My wife's aunt lived out there. We went out to visit it's 2004, I believe and we spent a week, a couple of days in Napa. She took us downtown, did like touristy downtown type stuff and then I just kind of hung out. Yeah, cool city. I'd love to go back and I know I've got some connections, uh, through linkedin that are out there, so I'll, I'll eventually get out there, hopefully sooner rather than later. But it's a. It's a cool part of the country, an interesting weather city, like you never really know, like what the weather's going to do out there, more so, I think, than other places, because you think of it like because it's california, so it's like nicer, but a lot of the time in san francisco it's not, like it's colder and rains.
Speaker 1:Yeah that was, that was a big, that was a big eye opener because we were there in March. I think we hit like every weather, every possible weather thing in March.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know the there's. I love San Francisco. Sweatshirts are bestsellers. It's like a booming business, because everybody comes here thinking it's going to be sunny California and then they end up freezing their beds off and buying these.
Speaker 1:I love San Francisco sweaters and Chinatown it's like the only thing they sell. They know that's the perfect. Uh, really knowing your audience and their pain points.
Speaker 1:Truly. Uh, yeah, I can totally feel that Cause I don't know. It's just, I mean, I'm from the Midwest, so I'd never been. I mean, I've been to Vegas a handful of times, um, I've been to Anaheim it's pretty warm that week but I've never been to Northern California. So, yeah, it was definitely cooler than I was ready for. I remember going to Alcatraz and touring Alcatraz and it was freezing. Uh, it was so cold it's cold, yeah, uh, so what.
Speaker 1:So what did you do? What did you do for work? Like once you? Obviously you were there longer than you were initially planning, but how did you delve back into the working world?
Speaker 2:Well, I was freelancing throughout that trip. So that was my first step at really working for myself freelancing, pitching, trying to get published, trying to build my brand reputation. And so I kind of continued that and I started freelancing from some local newspapers. And then I did what I always do and I networked my butt off and I reached out to all my connections. I found a professor who had a bunch of people he knew in San Francisco and publishing one of my journalism professors and that guy got me an interview at the San Francisco business times, you know, after a coffee date, and he was in a research position. So I was there and doing this research.
Speaker 2:I got the job as researcher because of this recommendation, because of my networking and light here, and I was there for a few months and the reporter who covered hospitality, retail, nonprofits, philanthropy, restaurants, like all the fun beats, decided that she was leaving, she needed to go on maternity leave and then she was going to go work in-house for Clorox, and so they were looking to fill this reporter's seat and I was like I'm a reporter, I wrote about, you know, pharmaceuticals and stuff in DC, and they're like you're not a reporter, oh, I am a reporter. They're like all right, why don't you write a story? Like write a story and do some research, write a story, we'll see. And I killed it and they hired me. So I worked there for two years as a journalist doing all the fun beats interviewing startups, and that's where I really got into small businesses and startups and telling their stories and my entrepreneurial freelancer bug never went away, but I really needed those years of experience to be able to do anything with it.
Speaker 1:Nice, did you just go to all the nice restaurants and do write-ups?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the second time in my career where I got to feel all important. I got invited to, you know, all the openings and parties and everyone always wanted to talk to me when I, you know, asked for a request for interview. So, yes, yeah, it was really. It was really fun. It was not sustainable as I started having kids, um, but it was great for, you know, a young person, 20s in a new city.
Speaker 1:That sounds good, the Capitol Hill gig? Not so much that, that gig.
Speaker 2:Way more fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds pretty good.
Speaker 2:You know. But like anything, you do it long enough and it starts to lose its luster you, you know, and I got tired of writing about food.
Speaker 1:You know, not never really the startups and small businesses.
Speaker 2:But I did get tired of writing about food. Um, I can see that. So what did you then? So then what? What did you do next? I went to culinary school. I'm tired of writing about food.
Speaker 1:I got tired of writing about food. I'm gonna make my own yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, I went to culinary school. I wanted to get off my computer and stop at the deadline, so that was the other unglamorous, that's the other very unglamorous part about being a journalist You're constantly on deadline, you're constantly under the gun, you know you mess up, you're like sued for libel, like it's low pay, high stress job, lots of influence, lots of unglamorous stuff. Yeah, so I wanted to. I didn't know what I was going to do, but I went to culinary school and then I got a job at a restaurant and I was like not this. And I got hired at a startup and there I was number five at Sun Basket, which became, you know this like huge startup doing their you know, essentially my first content marketing job. So I turned my journalism skills into, you know, building a story and a narrative and a media plan for a budding startup, and that's sort of where that part of my career kicked off.
Speaker 1:I assume that you kept networking, because you talked about that last time, how much in-person networking has really helped you, and I'm assuming you kind of kept doing that at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've continued doing that. That is, I think, the number one driver of all my business is my in-person networking.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Are you a natural or are you an extrovert? Like does that kind of stuff? Do you enjoy that?
Speaker 2:I do, but it's also something I'm always working on, like. I'm continuously trying to learn how to, and study how to be a better communicator, how to be better with people, how to be a better listener, you know, um, which is, I think, ultimately what makes a good networker right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But just also, uh, person who's like really fully connected and capable of building good relationships that go beyond work. Um, so it's yeah, I'd say I am naturally extroverted, but it's like everyone else, I think it's something that you need to, or like anything else, it's something that you need to continuously work on. You know no one's. It's like a really a natural communicator.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're excellent networker yeah, I could do it now I I couldn't have done, I wouldn't have, I would have been terrible at it. You know, in my mid to late 20s, probably even my early 30s, mid 30s, I still I would have fought it too much and would have been too draining, but I could do it now, but it definitely is.
Speaker 2:You mean in person, in person, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, I can see it being harder for introverts and and and for my at least. I try to spot the introverts in the room and talk to them. I go to them, they're easy to spot.
Speaker 1:They're standing in the corner not talking to anyone, so that's easy. I'm looking at their watch. When do I get to?
Speaker 2:leave.
Speaker 1:What time? It's been two hours, right? No, it's been 10 minutes. Okay, I guess I'll stay.
Speaker 2:You know. So that is one of the things I'm actually working on in a big way next year because I started hosting these retreats, these in-person retreats and the last one we hosted. It's a small, intimate group but we got a mix of introverts and extroverts and admittedly, I have an easier time with extroverts because you know we get each other, we like talk over each other.
Speaker 2:And then I realized I had a harder time with the introverts and my co-host, emma, was so good, she was so good at like drawing them out and bringing them into the fold in the conversation in such a natural way, and I and I told her that is my biggest work for this next year is figuring is like really understanding that personality type and different personality types and neurodivergent personality types and really understanding how to, how to really communicate with them and how to listen and how to be empathetic and how to bring them in and how to draw them out and, um, I think, if I want to continue being a facilitator which I do it's a really important skill that I need to learn that people yeah, it's a good point.
Speaker 1:I don't think a lot of people would take enough time to think about it like at that depth, and so it's good for you for doing it. I learned so. I'm a lifelong introvert and I was really shy as a kid, really shy, and I always thought those two went together. And then a guest on this show, amanda Kwok, back in the summer kind of explained it in a much better way for me. But they're two totally separate things so that you can be both away from me. But they're two totally separate things so that you can be both but you don't have to be. But I just always thought, well, like I'm shy and an introvert, and she was like you could have been not shy and introvert, you could have been an introvert, not shy, so you can flip them. But so it's interesting because it's all about energy. It's all it's like introversion and extroversion is nothing more than just where you get your energy.
Speaker 1:So typically introverts in a crowd and a group right, your energy is drained much more quickly and you need to go be by yourself, to kind of decompress, whereas extroverts in a crowd or group of people are energized and it's sort of a reverse.
Speaker 1:So what I have found, like as an introvert, like in a group setting like that, how many people did you have in Costa Rica? 10. And like, were there times when all 10 of you would have been in the same room or area Constantly? Yeah, and like, were there times when all 10 of you would have been in the same room or area, kind of talking, yeah, okay, so so like for me it would depend on how well I knew those people. So like if, if I was there and only knew you and I knew no one else, you would see a completely different version of me, versus if, like, six of them I knew pretty well and four that I didn't, you would then see a different version if I knew all 10 like really well. So it's like it really varies on your intimacy and your comfort level with the people, and the more that you are comfortable, the more yourself you'll be the different version you'll see. And then it's exactly the opposite.
Speaker 2:And what's the difference between that and being shy?
Speaker 1:So shy is more just not wanting to speak up. So you could be extroverted and get energy from a crowd but then be shy and not want to talk or not, or your voice would not come out strong or like whatever. So it's, it has nothing to do with energy, it's more just about like your willingness to like put yourself out there and like speak.
Speaker 1:You know confidence, or a little bit probably, yeah um, so, but like I always sat in the back of classrooms, I never wanted to be called on like if I could go an entire semester and not have to speak in school, like when I was, you know, probably fifth grade on, you know, like that would have been great. Please don't call me so. So, yeah, so I, we didn't talk about the retreats last time, I didn't know much about them, and now I know that you've done one, you're getting ready to do another one, or you're planning another one in may, what? So I don't really know anything about retreats. Like, so you have this group of 10, you're in costa rica, so what do you do? I have no idea. Like, what, like, what do you do? What does it?
Speaker 2:Well, that is one of the things we were sorting through last year. What is a good balance? For what do you do? We promise coming out of this retreat with this set of skills or understanding and focus on your business, but three days is simultaneously a long time and not long enough is simultaneously a long time and not long enough. So we spend part of our days doing workshops and hot seats where, basically, you get time dedicated time to talk openly about all the challenges in your business and get input and ideas from the group, which was probably the most powerful for everybody. And then there were other structured workshops for things like building systems or figuring out which marketing approach or tactics and tools and processes for strategic growth.
Speaker 2:So I had a retreat. Well, it depends on the retreat, but this was both a business. It's a retreat to really be able to focus and spend time on your business. I think one of the things I realized is like you really need space and time and like dedicated time to think strategically because you're constantly in it If you're, if you're, you know, in a business, working in a business, and we don't give ourselves that time, and so this is dedicated time where we're like focusing on these things. We're happy to talk about your business for three days, which you know you can't do with like your spouse or your friends or like anyone that's not in a business group with you, because they're tired of hearing about it, you know, and they're not in the same situation, they don't understand. So this is like a group of other people that completely understand what you're going through, because they're in it too, with some guidance, right and facilitation, and so, yeah, we would spend, you know, a good portion of the day doing that and then the rest of it doing other activities, because we're in Costa Rica, making it really a retreat. So we did yoga, we did a surf lesson, we did dinners out, you know, we did walks on the beach, and all those opportunities were just more opportunities for conversations, to keep working on stuff. Like I had this insight during that workshop about something that I've been doing that I should start doing differently for the outcome that I want, and I want to talk through it with you a little bit more, because you seem to get it, you know, or you seem to have been through it already, and so it just facilitates all those conversations that are like even more intimate and that you're not going to have a harder time getting on a Slack group or, you know, in the 15 minutes between talks at a conference. So that's it.
Speaker 2:And usually I come out of conferences two-day conferences, three-day conferences, one-day conferences like just buzzing with ideas and connections and new information and things I want to apply and do, and I usually feel very overwhelmed. But I didn't feel that way after this last retreat, and that was one of the things we heard from everybody else too, is that I actually felt calm, I felt clarity and I felt peace and like I had a direction that I know I need to go in. And then we checked in with everybody like four weeks later Okay, how's everyone doing? What's that? You know, we ended with this is the next step I'm going to take to, you know, get to this goal. How's everyone doing towards that stuff? And they're like well, I did it, I took the first step and I'm doing this.
Speaker 2:Some people are like I'm overwhelmed again. Okay, all right, let's talk about what it is. I'm back at where I was at before, which is like I can't focus on anything. What do I focus on? I'm so good at so many things. It's like all right, let's talk about this. So you know it's not. It's not a one and done, it's a. It's a continuous process. But, as I was telling you earlier, it's like I have an opportunity now to work with one of these people on a community and now I'm a strategic partner. That only happened because of the conversations we were having in those rooms, and by those rooms I mean on the patio, because everything was outside space, space, expansive space to think.
Speaker 1:No, it sounds good. So how did you decide on the 10 people and were you intentional about their skill sets and backgrounds in terms of obviously you'd want as many kind of different perspectives and like uniqueness. So you'd want, I would assume, like a mix of experienced, established business people, maybe some newer people, different industries. How did you come up with that? You said Emma was your co-host. I assume you guys kind of planned that together.
Speaker 2:We did, yeah, and it was really an extension of both of our networks.
Speaker 2:The people who ended up coming yes, we were intentional who we chose. We wanted businesses pretty much around the same level, but there were some that were two, three years into business and some that were seven years into business, and it didn't mean that the people who are seven years into their business didn't learn, didn't have take away some things from the people who are two years into their business. It was mostly content marketers and writers for that one. So we were actually specific that we wanted all these to be similar businesses, and there were a couple of people who weren't, though, and it was because of that that we recognized the value of having different types of service-based business owners. Like, we're all kind of doing the same business model to an extent, but our businesses are completely different. You know, they're not just in writing or content marketing, and that was really really helpful for the group. So that is what we're going to focus on this year in terms of selecting the crew just different types of business owners, who are all service-based business owners but serving different clients, different industries.
Speaker 1:Nice, yeah, so you're doing Mexico kind of middle of May and I think you said you're doing 12 people this time.
Speaker 2:We're doing 12 people this time, yeah 12, including you and Emma, or in addition 12, including me and Emma yeah.
Speaker 1:So 10 more, and I assume it'll be like a similar process of trying to figure out the right mix.
Speaker 2:Similar process of trying to figure out the right mix A different set of activities, because we're going to be in an urban setting as opposed to by a beach, but all towards a similar end. And last year's focus was building an intentional business, one that you really like, working in making sure that all of your marketing and operations and clientele are aligned with what you actually want. You know so many people end up building these accidental businesses and being like I don't I don't.
Speaker 1:What am I doing? I don't want to do this.
Speaker 2:I'm just building another job for myself, and so that was the real focus, and this year, the focus is more on the strategic growth and the steps that you need to really hone in focus, accelerate, take it to the next, take it to the next.
Speaker 1:Game changer, if you will. You know how much I love. You know my cliches. So, yeah, no, it sounds. It sounds amazing and I'm going to get to get to a retreat. I think I've talked to enough people that have done them. They all speak really highly of them, so I'm like, all right, I'm missing out, I gotta get. I gotta get to one of these.
Speaker 2:Yeah, someday. I think it's also just the crowd that it attracts. And yeah, the reason. You're all there. Know, the facilitators make a big difference too. Yeah, the other. Yeah, I couldn't find one I wanted to participate in, so I built my own built your own.
Speaker 1:No, that's uh that, do you guys? There's a guy on linkedin this is not off topic, but it's a good story his name is billy oppenheimer. Do you know? Do you know that name? I'm familiar so he does. I think he works, or he used to work with Ryan Holiday as like one of his, like writing people, anyway.
Speaker 1:So he does this series on LinkedIn you should follow him if you're not and he writes these really in-depth stories. A lot of times it's about like celebrities but like their backstory, and so he just had one and the reason you just talked about like building your own. So he wrote about Matt Damon. So Matt Damon auditioned for dead poet society, didn't get it, then went back home, worked in a movie theater.
Speaker 1:The movie theater showed one movie that summer dead poet society so he had to work at the theater taking tickets for the movie that he wanted to be in and seeing all these people coming out crying and like it was so moving right yeah so a couple years later he uh, gets the script for primal fear, reads the script, realizes that the role that ed norton ended up getting was going to be a career changing role for whoever got it like hired a dialect coach that he couldn't afford to interview. There were 2 000 people to try to get that role. Ed norton got it who was an unknown actor? That was his first ever role in Hollywood.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so Damon's thinking like you know, I've been at this for a while he had had some really just like small bit parts. This guy comes in, who no one knew gets this role. I think he won a couple awards for that and it just launched, you know, Ed Norton's career and that's why that he and Ben Affleck wrote Good Will Hunting, because they were like this normal, the normal setup isn't working for us. We want to be actors. We'll write our own script and then we'll be actors in our own movie.
Speaker 1:So like you know, so anyway, it's really, it's really interesting. He does stuff like that like all the time how does he do his research? Yeah, I don't know, because I I knew a little. I've heard damon on podcast. I thought I knew some of his backstory, but I had never heard, like I had never heard that. Yeah, it was really he don't. He did one recently with uh quentin tarantino, whose first movie was just like, apparently just awful, and everyone hated it yeah he worked on it.
Speaker 1:He worked on it for like three years and everyone was like that's terrible and so like he, like he probably should have quit and then, obviously, most people would have. Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly anyways. But but that's cool that you, like you had, you had kind of done it, hadn't seen success you were like I'm gonna rewrite it and I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it myself.
Speaker 2:That was your own version of uh, of goodwill hunting yes, one day I will be on a podcast talking about Good Will Hunting retreat business.
Speaker 1:How do you know Emma? How did you meet her? How did you guys form this partnership?
Speaker 2:I love this story.
Speaker 2:Emma is a content writer who has a newsletter where she writes sporadically. I think she was consistent with it, goodness, at first. Sorry, kat, she was consistent with it when she first started, but she's been in business for 10 years as a content writer and so you know consistent business and so her newsletter kind of was something that she just kept going for herself. At one point She'd send it like once a quarter, sometimes once every other month, and I got on it somehow. I actually don't remember how I found her. I got on it and I just felt like I was developing this relationship with her because she was telling all these stories about herself. She was very open and vulnerable about how she was feeling. She was a new mother and struggling with, like, having this online business and feeling so isolated and didn't know what to do. From the pandemic she started a little newspaper in her neighborhood, like all this stuff. One day she wrote in her newsletter I'm really done working on my own.
Speaker 2:I hosted this retreat before the pandemic, called Domina, for content writers. 15 people came. It was amazing. It was transformative. I want to do it again, but my business partner no longer wants to do it. It's been some time. We were going to do it the next year, but then pandemic had a kid, so it's been four years. Anyone out there interested? And I replied to that email and I was like, hey, you don't know me, but I've always wanted to do something like this. You know, I feel like I know you, I really like you, I feel like we're very aligned. I want to talk and see if I could be your partner, and that's how it started.
Speaker 1:Love it, putting your, putting yourself out there and like signing, like raising your hand, that's it, that's it I mean I really it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's both. It's both right. It's like really putting yourself out there and giving other people the opportunity to get to know you on this deeper level, on this intimate level. It's my whole shtick. You know storytelling and telling personal stories on your public platforms, and and then it's on my end yeah, and then it's actually raising your hand and saying you want to do this, I want to do this. I mean that's. You know I reach out to people all the time for these kind of partnerships. I saw you talked about this thing. Do you want to host a joint webinar together? I saw that you're looking for, you know someone who knows content systems? I know content systems.
Speaker 1:Can I come and be part of your workshop and that's created a ton of opportunity for me, but you have to ask, you do, you have to ask, and it compounds right, because the more you do it, then you get confidence, and then you start to get yeses and then you start to have success and so then you're like like this really works and then you never know, like where that's going to go, because you don't know who they know and like what they're doing.
Speaker 1:So it's. I don't think most people would do it like you would just be like, oh, like she'll, probably you'll talk yourself out of it, right, like she doesn't know me, I'm sure she has other people to come up with all these excuses and you don't even give yourself a chance. So I love that you just were like yeah, like 100%.
Speaker 2:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:No, that's amazing. Now you had mentioned you might do a couple more local ones. Are those just like smaller, like one dayers, or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we you know we're gonna do this other big mexico city one, but we were thinking about how we can make this a little bit more accessible and a little bit of a lower lift. There's more consistency in this. New narratives. You know, little sub business, little side hustle, retreat business, and so that would be like a day in the bay area she's, she's in the bay area as well. Or a day in denver, you know, at a ranch or something like that. Um, I don't know if there are ranches in Denver. Are there ranches in Denver? Maybe?
Speaker 1:I don't know there are now.
Speaker 2:Okay, colorado, but somewhere that's like easy for people to fly into. You know, isn't this big expense and commitment, you know, more conference-y but still intimate? Not, you know, probably like half those are like 30 people, for instance. Probably like half, those are like 30 people, for instance. And so it's not the same as the retreat, but, um, you know, it's this idea of getting people together in person and really getting dedicated time to work on your business?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think there's a lot to that. Like you said, the in-person energy is different, and especially on like two or three days where you're spending a lot of time together or you can spend a lot of time together, so you can have different, different levels of conversation that can spawn maybe not even just business, but you get personal when you get background, how it all kind of mixes together and then you know, so you, you just get a different, it's just different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it, and I think the big thing that we're trying to do differently with new narratives is that, like we really want to build a community where it's like it's okay to bring your whole self into it, because business is deeply personal. When you're working for yourself, you know you really can't untangle the two things, so you shouldn't have to, and this is like a safe space where you can like bring all of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. Um, well, there's a lot more that we could get into, but I feel like this is a good place to stop. Thanks for coming back, thanks for sharing and actually worked out, because we got to talk about the retreats this time, we didn't talk about that last time, so that's been good. I love your work. I love your content. I'm so happy that you came back. Any final thoughts, anything you want to leave? And then how can people reach out if they want to get more information?
Speaker 2:Well, I just sent out my last newsletter of the year and it's all around this idea of speaking out, using your voice, finding your voice, you know, articulating your value, asking for what you want. It's this woman's story, chantal, who is now a bestselling author, a career coach, a keynote speaker who gets five figure, you know, 60 minute speaking deals all the time and she works full time as an executive salesperson and she's got an incredible backstory and so I wanted to tell it and really she inspired me to really focus next year on continuing to speak out, continuing to articulate your value like really trying to find your voice.
Speaker 2:A lot of it, just you know, comes back to figure finding yourself, you know, finding that confidence, finding that confidence to speak up. And yeah, that's what I'm going into the new year with and I would encourage other people to too. So, and if you need help finding your voice, I can help you. Help finding your voice, I can help you. Um, yeah, um, thank you so much for having me on. What about you? Any, any, any?
Speaker 1:wrap up the year. Words of wisdom. David, I feel like you're so thoughtful, Um, you know, I would say storytelling, which I know is a big one for you.
Speaker 1:Really telling your story, that's what people grasp onto especially in this era of plug and play content and AI and all that type of stuff, they can't tell your story because they don't know it. So if you're not sure what to write about, tell a piece of your story and people that will gravitate towards that they're your people and the people that won't, they weren't your people anyway. So that's how you stand out and especially with the way LinkedIn's's kind of the way the platform is moving and organic reach being down, people are a little bit worried about that. Like a, you can't really do anything about it, but b your unique story will always stand out and so that's, that's what you have to do.
Speaker 1:So we can all google and gpt, you know, top five and top 10 list and productivity hacks and like all that kind of stuff, if we want, but we can't, we can't learn about you and what you have to offer and your personality and your background and your experience, like all that stuff is hard or not hard. Like all of the, all of ours are different. So you know, that's what you really. That's. Your unique identifier is your lived experience and then your background. So that's what you have to let people know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what you have to let people know yeah.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, appreciate the time, enjoy a holiday with your family and friends, and we'll do it again next year.
Speaker 2:David take care.
Speaker 1:Thanks.