The Real You
1:1 Long-Form Interviews with Interesting People Doing Amazing Things
In-depth discussion of people's journeys to tap into their full potential and find ways to be the truest version of themselves.
The Real You
EP 30: Harnessing Neurodiversity: Kaitlin Johnson on Embracing ADHD and Self-Expression
What if ADHD isn't a limitation, but a unique way of experiencing the world?
Join me for a conversation with Kaitlin Johnson, an ADHD coach and former HR professional, as she shares her personal journey from being diagnosed with ADHD at age 15 to learning how to harness its strengths.
Kaitlin challenges the misconceptions surrounding ADHD, debunking myths of laziness and unproductivity, and unveils personalized strategies for managing ADHD effectively through self-acceptance and adaptation, particularly with medication.
Discover how embracing ADHD can lead to a fulfilling life, rather than viewing it as a life sentence.
Our discussion with Kaitlin takes us on a journey through the complexities of ADHD, focusing on its manifestation in adults and the need for updated diagnostic criteria.
Kaitlin shares her insights on setting realistic expectations and aligning long-term goals with personal values, navigating the societal pressures that often derail motivation.
Through engaging stories, we uncover the challenges of traditional productivity methods and the importance of finding strategies that resonate with neurodivergent minds.
Beyond ADHD, the episode explores Kaitlin's passion for tattoos, revealing the therapeutic and self-expressive aspects of body art.
Whether you're intrigued by ADHD management or the art of tattoos, this episode offers a captivating blend of inspiration and practical advice.
Tune in to embrace your true self and uncover the unique strengths within your own mind.
Kaitlin's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaitlinjohnsonadhdcoach/
David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/
David's Website: https://davidjyoung.me/
Welcome to the Real you Podcast. This is Episode 30. I'm David Young, your host. I'm a LinkedIn content and business coach. I help coaches with less than 3,000 followers grow their businesses through better storytelling and content creation. I launched this podcast in March of 2024 to spotlight interesting people doing amazing things, and today I'm joined by Kaitlin Johnson, an ADHD coach and former HR professional. Kaitlin helps adults with ADHD ditch the one size fits all hacks and instead creates personalized strategies that work for their unique brains and lifestyles. She's passionate about helping people play to their strengths and build systems that are both sustainable and effective. We'll discuss her journey, the positives of living with ADHD and how to turn those challenges into opportunities for growth. Caitlin, thank you so much for making time and coming on the show today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and this is your first podcast. I just learned.
Speaker 2:It is. It's my very first one, so you'll have to forgive all of my nervous little tics.
Speaker 1:That's fun. No, you'll be great. It's just like we were chatting beforehand. It's just the red button's on now, so it's the same same.
Speaker 2:It's about the same thing. I've got my emotional support coffee. I'm good to go.
Speaker 1:Perfect, so thanks for coming on. We've gotten to know each other pretty well the last few months we started working together, I think in like August or September, I reached out to just offer you some help because you were kind of new to LinkedIn. I think you'd gotten laid off or something happened with your previous job. So yeah, so it's been fun watching your growth and seeing you on LinkedIn and trying to help you just a little bit. So yeah, it's been great to get to know you.
Speaker 2:We've helped a lot.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that, but no, you've been great, you've really taken to the platform and your content is good and what you're offering is really good because I think there's a need for it. I think there's a lot of what you've talked about in your content. There's a lot of confusion around ADHD, and so you try to help clarify that. So I love what you're doing and kind of how it's going for you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you, and yeah, I mean it is. It was really eye-opening to start doing this and see just how many people really don't understand ADHD. We grow up hearing that we're lazy or we're just not productive, or we're not made for this or too sensitive or whatever. We hear a lot of these little criticisms throughout our lives and, you know, we grow into adults thinking I just can't do it, and that's simply not the case for people with ADHD. Granted, some things might be a little bit more difficult, but ADHD has so many gifts that people are unaware of ADHD. Brains really can be amazing, and I'm so excited to be able to share that with people.
Speaker 1:Nice. When did you? I don't know what the right word is. Is it diagnosed? The right word? Okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah Diagnosed.
Speaker 1:When, like when, were you diagnosed?
Speaker 2:So I was diagnosed when I was about 15. And so my mom brought me into this doctor. I guess I don't really know if he even specialized it in the time. There was very little research at that point about ADHD. 20 years ago he ended up doing these computer tests where I would you know, see something on the computer and click buttons and still remember it being one of the most overwhelming experiences of my life.
Speaker 2:And, lo and behold, I get the diagnosis and it was put on medication and that's at the time. That's really all we had. Adhd is treated via medication and so, as a result, I largely ignored my diagnosis for a lot of years, a lot of years which didn't really help manage symptoms at all. Honestly, it was almost a gift in a way, because I think as a teenager you don't really understand those differences and how to stand up for yourself, how to show up for yourself, but as an adult you have a little bit more self-awareness. So, honestly, it was helpful then coming back to ADHD in my 20s and trying everything that I could find to help manage symptoms and really then ultimately finding the systems and the solutions that worked for me.
Speaker 1:No, that's interesting and that's a good way to reframe to look at it, that it was kind of helped you in the long run. Did you have to experiment with different medicines and different doses, or were they able to? Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, no, it's constant experimentation and you know that'll probably continue, honestly, because people change and our bodies change and we age and mature and all of that stuff. So I've probably been on oh gosh, like four or five different medications. I take Adderall at this point, which has been my favorite so far. Eventually, when the price goes down a little bit, I want to try Vyvanse, which people say is really great. I think it's a constant experimentation based on what your body needs at that particular time, how your brain is changing. But yes, short answer. Yes, I experimented a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because my oldest. He's now 15. He first got diagnosed when he was about 11, four years ago, and how it came up was that he was coming home in the fifth grade doing like three hours of homework.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we were like this is not normal.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of homework, yeah, for fifth graders like something's going on.
Speaker 1:So we started talking to the teacher and like well, we give him time in class, but he doesn't do it and so it piles up, and so they don't do the test piles up and so they don't do the test. They don't do the click the button test anymore.
Speaker 1:Now it's, there's a questionnaire and so like I fill it out, my wife filled it out, and then we get three of his teachers to fill it out and then that goes to the doctor and then, based on the answers to all of those, they decide. But they still they bring him back for an appointment.
Speaker 1:And then you review the answers and then at that point you're like yes or no much better method so for him it was kind of a like definitely, and then medication would help, and so he's been on some form of medication and it makes a huge difference, like once he, once he started on the meds, then he basically had no homework. It went from three hours to none, because now he was able to do it in school yeah, yeah so, but it's, but he doesn't like the way it makes him feel.
Speaker 1:It's because he doesn't feel like he's himself, and so it's almost like two brains, like on med brain, off med brain, but it makes such a difference Like he understands that he needs it. So, yeah, it's, it's challenging and it'll be interesting to see, like you said, like as he grows and he's got another 10 years of brain development, like what, what that will look like and like all that kind of stuff there's a lot like. There's a lot more to it than I would have ever like known from the outside.
Speaker 2:There really is, and it's interesting that you say that because I hear that a lot, especially with younger people, so people who are under 25, they stop taking ADHD medication because of that exact reason. It doesn't make them feel like themselves and I don't know the science really behind that. I don't know if you know, until your brain fully develops, if it does something different, but I have heard that a lot. Has he experimented with different medications?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I don't know all of them. A lot of them are generic, so the names won't matter. So he has played around with it.
Speaker 1:Where he is now, which is working pretty well, is he takes a full dose of one in the morning and then he does a booster at maybe one o'clock, something like that, and then that gets him through the pretty much through the day and then he has typically practiced, you know, after school. So that usually gets him through that and that's working pretty well. Again, he doesn't love it, but he knows that he needs it. Also suppresses his appetite a little bit, so we had to play around. The first one he was on was much more of an appetite suppressant, which was not good for him at all, because he needs to gain weight.
Speaker 2:He's a growing boy.
Speaker 1:He's growing and he's skinny anyways, and so like that was not good, so what he's on now is better. It still suppresses a bit but it's not nearly as severe as the other one. But it is again kind of trial and error and dosing and like when to take it and like all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is a lot of it.
Speaker 1:When you moved. You know, as you're into your 20s and you start kind of taking a little deeper dive, like what was, what were some of the strategies or what did you kind of find once you started looking for ways to not just rely on the medicine but to really start like trying to help yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know it has been such a journey because and I think all of us with ADHD in this attempt to help ourselves, we start out myself included with these kind of generic hacks, so things that you can find on the internet the Pomodoro method, or block your time this way, or develop this extensive routine, follow this routine, and it's like the intention behind these tips and tricks and hacks. It's good, it's really good, but it just doesn't work for a neurodivergent brain. These are designed by neurotypical brains and they work great for neurotypical brains, adhd brains. They have a harder time with those hacks. They just don't work and what it ends up doing is we start with these hacks. They work at first and then they don't work and it kind of brings us deeper into this whole, this lack of self-confidence, lack of self-esteem. I just can't do it, I'm just broken, which is not the case.
Speaker 2:And so, ultimately, what I found the key to managing ADHD is understanding ADHD, really understanding how ADHD presents, for in this case, I had to understand how ADHD presented for myself, because it is different for everybody. So I learned a ton about my brain. I learned about the brain in general. I examined my symptoms, my ADHD traits and then biggest difference was practicing self-acceptance, honestly building that confidence and realizing that ADHD is not this life sentence, it's not something that dooms you to fail, it's just a different brain. Accepting that and realizing that and coming to terms with just having a different brain was you're going to hate me for saying this. It was a game changer. I'm sorry for using that word.
Speaker 1:All out today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, but it really was. I mean, it just made all the difference. It's just accepting myself for who I was and it sounds so cheesy, but with an ADHD brain, that is the key the way that our brains work. I hate that there's a scientific reason for this, but there is. We tend to focus on the negative and then, when we hear something negative, we internalize it and then we ruminate and so it sticks with us. And again, the way that our brains work. We constantly replay these negative things over and over, and, over and over again and it just becomes this cycle. And until you find self-acceptance, until you start to love that part of yourself that you've been told is broken, you really don't have the foundation to be able to help your symptoms right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great point. I mean it's the whole. Like you go to your favorite restaurant 10 times. The first nine are great, the 10th one's a terrible experience. Which one do you tell everybody about? Right, it's the negative.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly Right, because, again, like you said, biologically wired. So it's interesting the analogy then to then focus on the negative, like, oh, I have this whatever neurodivergent brain, it's not, quote unquote, normal. And then you focus on like that, like yeah, so I think that's a great first step, that mindset of like this, this is what I have, this is, these are, this is the hand I've been dealt. So what's? How can I maximize it? Like what, what can I do to help it? Now, with ADHD, I know, cause I have OCD, which is not related, but it's at least somewhere in the adjacent space and I know for OCD there's different categories.
Speaker 1:So there's, like you know, moderate to mild and there's like moderate to severe and there's severe. Does ADHD kind of have a similar like variations of like how you have it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it does. I mean some people their symptoms present more severely than others. But there are, technically speaking or medically speaking, there are three types of ADHD. So you have hyperactive ADHD, which is exactly how it sounds. It's a lot of physical hyperactivity. You have inattentive ADHD, which again is similar to how it sounds. You have a hard time finding motivation, finding focus, and then there's the combination. So the hyperactive, inattentive and that is what most people have, that's the most common form of ADHD. Is this hyperactive inattentive?
Speaker 2:And an important clarification too is hyperactive doesn't necessarily mean physical. It's important to clarify that that hyperactivity can be felt in your brain as well. So when ADHD people talk about having chaos swirling around in their heads or not being able to identify a single thought, that's a form of hyperactivity as well, and that's typically the hyperactivity that you see with adults. Kids. You're going to see the physical hyperactivity. My four-year-old has ADHD and child cannot sit still. She's bouncing off the walls, literally, literally bouncing off the walls all the time. But as she grows and as her brain develops, we might see her start to kind of merge into the brain. You know inside hyperactivity as well. So it does change as you grow.
Speaker 1:Interesting Now, can you outgrow it, so like once you get past? You cannot, so if you have some form of it, you will always have it.
Speaker 2:You will always have it and you can learn to compensate for your symptoms, but you will always have ADHD. So ADHD is actually, if you were to look inside someone's brain, if you compare, like a neurotypical brain with a neurodivergent brain, there are actual physical differences in those brains that are not ever going to go away. So you're born with ADHD and you cannot upgrow ADHD going to go away. So you're born with ADHD and you cannot outgrow ADHD. But again, you can start by compensating for some of those symptoms or you can learn to compensate for some of those symptoms.
Speaker 2:And that's another really important thing that I wish people understood more about ADHD is you know exactly what you said You're born with it. You can't outgrow it. But some people experience what we call adult onset ADHD and this is when you start by learning how to compensate for your symptoms. You compensate early on, but something happens a stressful event, a stressor in general and you start to see these symptoms and a lot of times these people are misdiagnosed because this idea of adult onset ADHD is fairly new, but symptoms can start showing up later in life and it's still ADHD.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Now, do you think it's a benefit or neutral to have it be adult onset versus knowing you have it when you're?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it depends on how you handle it. Honestly, I think one more negative aspect of maybe having adult onset ADHD is the diagnosis process. In a lot of these diagnoses processes these days, a doctor will ask you did you experience symptoms before age 12? And if you answer no, they will not diagnose you with ADHD. So beware, if you've gone to get a diagnosis and someone asks you did you experience symptoms before age 12? Run, because that is not an accurate way of diagnosing ADHD. So in that sense, adult onset ADHD might be a little bit harder to diagnose.
Speaker 2:You've also learned to compensate for some of these symptoms already that might have shown up when you're earlier, younger, so it might be more complicated. But I also think you have the maturity and the self-awareness when you're older to approach dealing with symptoms in a different way, right. So you have the self-awareness to say hey, this particular activity screen time, for example makes my brain feel more chaotic when I'm done. I should reduce my screen time, whereas a kid is going to go to screen time and think this is really fun. I'm going to do it forever and not notice what happens afterwards.
Speaker 1:That's so true.
Speaker 2:I think it depends. I think it depends.
Speaker 1:My youngest would play Fortnite forever if we'd let them my three would do the exact same thing.
Speaker 2:I mean, it is constant. Can we get on the screens? Can we play video games? No, we're on the screens for eight hours.
Speaker 1:So yeah it's. I mean, they've done a good job. They're addicting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they are.
Speaker 1:So with your four-year-old? How? How are you? How did you know that she had it? Since most kids that age are easily distracted, are bouncing off the walls right, that's a pretty normal behavior pattern for most four-year-olds.
Speaker 2:So how are you able to figure that out for her? Yeah, good question. So it's interesting. I knew that there was something kind of a little bit different about her when she was months old, when it started out with sleep. She would not sleep through the night. In fact, I think she was three years old before she slept through the night for the first time, and still it's very sporadic. She rarely is able to sleep through the night, and that's one of the hallmarks of ADHD is these sleep disorders or sleep troubles, and we took her to neurologists, to pediatricians. We tried everything, but it's just the way that her brain works. The chemicals in her brain just make sleep a little bit more difficult. So that was the first thing that I noticed with hers is sleep was tough, to say the least.
Speaker 2:And then the other big symptom that she has is emotional regulation. She has a very hard time regulating her emotions, which is common with any four-year-old or five-year-old and below. It's not unheard of by any means, but she has an especially difficult time. She cannot calm her body down when she's feeling upset. She needs to be physically removed from a situation. And when it comes to discipline, to be physically removed from a situation, and when it comes to discipline, she can't. She has an auditory processing issue as well, which is again common with kids with ADHD. She has to fully calm her body down before she can understand. You know ways to handle it in the future. So it's you know, it's little things here and there that made it evident that you know something was a little bit different than you know maybe the friends that she was playing with. But I think, when it comes to kids with ADHD is it's these little things that add up to a bigger, a bigger issue that you're seeing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm assuming you can't medicate kids that young.
Speaker 2:You actually can. I'm not going to medicate her just because she's a baby, but you can medicate kids, I think as young as four, but I don't know. I mean, I think in my opinion I would prefer to try other methods of you know, kind of controlling some of her symptoms before medicating, just because, to your point, I mean, even with your teenage son, he feels different on the medication. You know, he has the words and the self-awareness to describe how he's feeling and how it makes him feel, whereas younger kids, they don't understand that as well.
Speaker 1:No, that makes sense. What are some of the top things that you've learned about yourself? What you help your clients with, non-medication related but just and I know it depends, obviously because you said it's different for everyone, but I'm assuming there's some go-to. After you learn about it and you accept it, or you're able to at least move towards acceptance, then what can you start to do then? To like give yourself the best chance to operate at your highest level?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have found with 99% of my clients, when ADHD is present and they're having trouble managing symptoms, there is often something below the surface that is exacerbating ADHD symptoms or preventing these um, you know solutions from from actually working. And so, um, typically there's some underlying trauma that has occurred that is still present within um, you know, within the body, within brain, that that is again exacerbating it. And my parents died in a fire when I was three years old and I watched it happen. Like it doesn't have to be that intense. It could be a bad breakup. It could be getting fired from a job you loved, you know, anything that has had an impact on you.
Speaker 2:I have found that people with ADHD have a harder time really moving past those experiences and likely it has to do with something called RSD, which is rejection, sensitive dysphoria.
Speaker 2:But it's something that a lot of people with ADHD have a challenging time dealing with and it makes you more sensitive to emotional experiences. It gives you bigger emotional reactions and it also is part of the reason that you're internalizing a lot of these traumas that are happening and why you're not able to move past them. So with a lot of my clients we go back in time, so to speak, and we reframe these experiences that have caused us distress, and so we change our perspective a little bit. We look at it from a third-party perspective because not for nothing, sometimes our brains and our memories do lie to us in a sense, and when we go back and we re-examine these experiences, we can see them from a different lens that doesn't feel quite as traumatic, or we can be the support, be the guidance for our younger selves that we wish we had at the time, and I found that to be really helpful in at least providing the foundation to then start managing ADHD symptoms.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I would not have thought of that and I'm assuming most of your clients probably don't make that connection either.
Speaker 2:They don't. They don't.
Speaker 1:So it's. You know how that's? Well, I mean, it makes sense logically that it's tied together, but it seems like such a different. The trauma doesn't seem related. But then you realize it's kind of all interconnected.
Speaker 2:It is. It is especially when, again with ADHD, you do internalize and then you ruminate, and that's you know. I don't know how scientific you want to get here, but it's thanks to essentially a broken lever within the brain that leads your imagination to always be on and not shut down your imagination. With ADHD, it's very difficult to do that, and so it allows your thoughts to run away with themselves and go down these rabbit holes and come up with these very negative scenarios that we then feed back to ourselves. And so when we have these traumatic experiences, they're constantly rerunning in our brains until we actively find ways to, you know, shrink them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and see, and I think that's where the overlap to OCD is, because that's what I that was like the worst of my OCD was Really. It wasn't so much past what I would call traumatic experiences, but it was something current that I then would play on a loop that I couldn't stop playing.
Speaker 2:Interesting. So how do you remedy that then? What do you do to stop the loop?
Speaker 1:These days it's a combination of therapy, medication, exercise, breathing techniques and just awareness of what's happening and almost like getting outside of your body and looking at it, like observing yourself in the third party, which is very difficult to do, but just and it's. I mean, I've had it for a long time, so it's a lot of just practice and years, so that, I think, is everything you've described. That's the one thing that I feel like is most that I can really understand. The most is those like repetitive thoughts and you, just you, simply can't get rid of them. Mine would sometimes go at its worst, probably three days, maybe longer, of just constant. I had no way to break it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's exhausting.
Speaker 1:It is Other than sleeping. If I could sleep, that would stop it, but if I was awake there was almost nothing else I could do. I could do it temporarily If I worked on something that required high focus. I would play chess. Sometimes I'd have to think about the game or the moves, but as soon as that was over, it would come right back, so it was only temporary yeah yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:It is extraordinarily exhausting mentally and physically. And then you're always. For me it was always like I walked on eggshells, because you're always trying to avoid, like the next one. You never knew when the next one was going to happen. So it was just constant, like you're always just on defense, you know, like all the time.
Speaker 2:Fight or flight and then it just leads to burnout so quickly. And then, once you're in burnout mode, then it's, this vicious cycle starts up again. You're so exhausted it's hard to do the things and, by the way, the things that you do for OCD, same things that people with ADHD do as well to kind of try to combat that. But once you're in burnout mode, your first instinct is not to go to mindfulness meditation exercise. You're exhausted, you just want to sit there and then, when you're sitting there, of course going back into that cycle. It's tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, the breathing is a relatively new one for me and that one has helped quite a bit, because that's what I like about that one is I can do it real time. So if something, if I get triggered, I can just instantly go to some paced breathing, some forced breathing, and it's amazing how quickly you can start to like not necessarily neutralize it, but you can really start to slow its progression almost immediately. So that's been really key.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. What's your favorite? I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, just like I said, that's relatively new and I don't think I would have gotten there 10 or 15 years ago. I think I would have rejected that. I don't know if I have a favorite. There's one that I do. That's like two inhales.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know you could do this, but you go second inhale and then you hold it and then you let it out that one, because it's a brain interrupter, because you have to think about you won't breathe that way naturally. So to take that first inhale and then take the second one, like your brain has to focus on that second inhale, you can't do it otherwise. Maybe you could train yourself, but most people, if you tell them to take two inhales, they have to be like hold on, Did I just?
Speaker 1:yeah, so you. So it almost immediately A, forces your brain off of what you're trying to think of, and then B, you're getting the nervous system relaxation with the actual deeper breathing, and you're holding it and you're letting out. You can hold it at the end and there's obviously I mean, there's tons of different ways to do it, but that's the one that I probably go to instantly if I have something that's potentially problematic.
Speaker 2:That's the breathing that they told me to do when I was in labor.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 2:I think it calms physical sensations too, and that of course when you're in labor. Oh really, I think it calms physical sensations too, and that you know. Of course, when you're in labor you're freaking out. I think it just yeah to your point of calm is like the nervous system too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it does work.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's the idea, is the consistent breathing practice. You kind of you try to keep your nervous system in a relatively calm state. It's much easier than when you get triggered or something happens. Your reactions and everything just comes from a totally different place, whereas what you talked about, like if you're in that state of fight or flight or burnout or agitated, and then something happens, like you're just much more quickly move to overreacting, yelling, whatever, and then and then, and it just like you said it just keeps you, just keep spinning you can't, can't get out right.
Speaker 2:It's so hard, but it's all about like maintenance, right? It's like same as healthy eating. You know you eat healthy so that you don't develop these chronic illnesses that then require you to spend, you know, years of your life in a hospital or taking medication. It's all about maintenance versus. You know the reactive response.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. So as you move people, you're helping them kind of identify the traumatic past and then reframe that think about it differently Then, like what's the next step? Like where do you then move them after to kind of keep progressing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we talk about lifestyle. So I think one of the most important things with ADHD and, honestly, even if you don't have ADHD is not pushing yourself past your limit or not introducing a million different changes or things at once, because it becomes unsustainable. You know, if you take the baby steps, then you've got these sustainable solutions, these sustainable routines that end up helping a lot more than if you were to write down, you know, an entirely new morning and evening routine that you're going to follow. You know, step by step, every day. It's like nobody's going to stick with that long-term and I mean, I guess maybe it's like superhuman people can, but I cannot, I cannot.
Speaker 2:So we typically, with clients, examine what works and what doesn't work in their lifestyles and then we take the things that do work and we build on that. So we always want to start from a place of positive response. Instead of making a bunch of changes. It's like, well, okay, what can we add in that? You know that you can maintain, that feels good, that feels natural, that we can then build on. It's like when, I don't know, you remember, like these diet culture, when it was like, if you want to lose weight, if you want to be Kate Moss skinny, you have to remove all these things from your diet, and it's like people would go on these crash diets and they'd be so much worse off than they were before.
Speaker 2:It's like the same approach. It's like, instead of taking a million things away, let's just add in one proactive thing at a time, baby steps, build upon this routine until it feels natural. You know there is an element of discipline in there, but don't force yourself to go all out. You're setting yourself up to fail. It's this idea of being kinder to yourself and meeting yourself where you are, instead of trying to completely overhaul anything. I mean that's a shock to anybody's system, especially a neurodivergent brain. Transitions and change are hard anyway. Why make it harder on yourself?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean that's a great point for almost any new endeavor or anything you're trying to tackle, that you can really only add like one or two things at a time, depending on their complexity, and if you try to make, yeah, eight changes at once, I mean there's just, you literally won't do it no, it's overwhelming as heck.
Speaker 2:And then you end up feeling worse about yourself when you can't do it, because who can do it long term? Nobody. You're going to end up just feeling shitty, sorry.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, and with the new year coming up and all the resolutions and I think that's a big one is that people just they try to do everything right. They look at their money and their finances and their job and their career and their relationships and it's like, yeah, you can't solve all those on January 2nd, like that's not going to happen, so pick one.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Like two areas of one and then move that in the right direction, then pick two more.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I used to work at a gym in college and it was like a running joke because January 1st, you'd see, oh my God, the gym is packed, like no machine is left untouched, like everybody is in the gym Come like February, march, dead. It's just quiet, there's nobody there.
Speaker 1:I mean it's, yeah, it's. I mean you hear and see it all the time and I don't even know what the percentage of resolutions that fail, but it's an extremely high number.
Speaker 2:So many.
Speaker 1:But I think it's again. It sounds good, it looks good, it feels good for a couple of weeks, and then your life takes over. Normalcy kicks in Suddenly it's January 16th. It has no real special time. You're like fuck it, I'm going to stop.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I'm not doing it, I don't feel like it and you're going to. I mean, everybody loses motivation at some point, so you have to make sure that when you're adding these things in, it's not going to be super hard to get that motivation back when you inevitably lose it. Like no one is able to keep motivation nonstop, you know, forever. People have ebbs and flows, right? So it's like set yourself up for success. Don't try to do everything at once. I saw oh my God, I saw a post on LinkedIn this guy talked about he worked for it was like over a month straight, every single day, for 14 hours a day, and he's like and I don't regret any second of it because here are the things that I got done and I'm good for him. If it works for you, it works for you. But, oh my God, like to be in your brain right now. I was like I was having heart palpitations just reading that. It's like be kind to yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not sustainable.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:The other thing too, and I think another reason why people quit so quickly, is we live in such an instant results society right, everything's downloadable and streaming and Uber, eats and microwave Everything is quickly.
Speaker 2:Instant gratification.
Speaker 1:Amazon same day deliveries, all of it. So we then want that to happen for things that you're not able to do that. So chances are if you are signing up for a gym membership, you probably haven't been going to the gym, so you're probably not in peak physical condition to begin with. So it's going to take longer than two trips or two weeks of going right, and so I think people don't see that really dramatic shifts, which you won't again, especially depending on where your baseline is. So it's going to take a while. So you have to kind of temper your expectations. It's no different than LinkedIn. You can't just start posting on LinkedIn. Nobody knows who you are and people just flock to your business. It doesn't happen that way. It takes time and you have to build a network and relationships and be consistent and comment on other people's posts, and there's all these things you have to. Like you can't start on January 1st and by the 15th be full of clients Like. It just simply doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1:So I think people have to get out of that quick fix mentality. Some things it's nice 100%. But for the bigger stuff and when you're talking about, you know, adhd or lifestyle changes or trauma healing or like much deeper stuff, like it's just going to take longer.
Speaker 2:It takes effort and it's not easy, but you know you have to be able to show up for yourself and invest in yourself, right? I mean? That is the greatest gift that you can give yourself and, to your point, this instant gratification is, for sure, a challenge for people with ADHD and for everybody, but ADHD it's a challenge for me, I mean, especially now to your point. We've got Amazon, we've got the smartphones, we've got literally everything at our fingertips and it's hard to then wait for results, like I I mean we were talking about the gym Like I have been guilty of this a million times, I will. I'm quite small. You can't really tell with the clothes.
Speaker 1:I wear but small.
Speaker 2:But I don't have. I, I don't, you know, go to the gym regularly. I I'm not toned so, but I have fallen into this trap a million times where I'm like I'm going to get ripped. I'm going to get ripped, I'm going to look great Like swimsuit season. Here I come, I will go to the gym for two weeks and obviously I'm not going to see any difference in two weeks. But after two weeks I'm like I just I don't. I don't have muscles, they don't exist in my body, it's just, it's gel. It's this idea of instant gratification. You've got to manage your expectations and come at these resolutions or goals with realistic and finder, you know, end goals in mind. You know, maybe I'm not, you know, going to go to the gym and be ripped, but is that the real reason? I should be going to the gym? Go to the gym to be healthy and then, as a result, you manage your expectations a little better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's. I talked to my wife about working out and we talk about just like life, fitness. Right, you're not, because I'm. Usually, if I'm going to the, I don't go to the gym much. Most of the stuff I do is just around the house.
Speaker 1:But yeah if I'm doing something with enough intensity, I'm usually training for some kind of race. But she doesn't do that like she's not gonna race, it's just not. She's not interested in it and I'm. That's totally fine. More people were in your camp than are in mine, but you're doing it. Cardio and the strength training and all that kind of stuff is for life. You want to be just physically stronger to withstand. Her job is very draining Fight off illness, play with your kids.
Speaker 1:There's all these things that you just want to be quote unquote in shape, for it has nothing to do with running a certain mile or lifting a certain amount of weight, and so I think a lot of people forget that. That's a good reason Like that can be your race can be your life.
Speaker 1:Um, I was having Lisa Klein on. I don't know if you know Lisa, she was saying that to me. She she's just came on the podcast last week and we were talking about that and I think she was the one that was saying like if you need motivation and you don't have a specific goal, then make your life the motivation.
Speaker 2:I love that I can't wait to listen to that one. It sounds incredible.
Speaker 1:She used to be a health and wellness coach and she did that for like 10 years and so she just had a lot of experience talking to people and I think she worked mostly with women. I'm not sure about that, but just again, they were just struggling to find motivation, that so she was trying to find ways to like explain it to them and we were both kind of on the same page with the you know just for your life and she said it better than I did but it's the same principle that that can be your motivation. If you don't have I mean in swimsuit season or going to the beach or the summer, obviously a lot of people Right If it works for you.
Speaker 1:Right, spring break trip or something. That's totally fine, there's nothing wrong with that, but whatever, whatever you need, but you just have to have the longer, the longer goal in mind.
Speaker 2:Right, but that is hard for people with ADHD or just neurodivergence in general. These longer goals, it's kind of hard to you know to think about something that far in advance. But you know it's this idea of sitting with realistic expectations and defining what your sense of success is. You know, at least it was saying make your life your, your end result. Lisa, I'm coming for you. I want to talk.
Speaker 1:Sounds good, I can put you in touch.
Speaker 2:She sounds great. I would love to.
Speaker 1:One of the things you talk about in your tagline and your content is the hacks. What are a couple of the pretty common hacks that really don't help?
Speaker 2:Yeah, planners, that's a big one. I cannot tell you.
Speaker 1:I think you've made fun of me for this before you have a list, you have a stack of untouched planners. I have a stack.
Speaker 2:A stack, and it's true, because you get this idea in your brain. It's like this is the one, this is the planner. This is going to make me do it. No, it's not, no, it, no, it's not, no, it's not. It didn't work the first 25 times. It's not going to work the 26th time, but the other one. That I say this, you know, take it with a grain of salt, because it does work for some people.
Speaker 2:But the Pomodoro method just grinds my gears. I can't stand it. It's this idea of, like working 25 minutes and then you get a three minute break, and then you work 25 minutes and get a three minute break. Kill me now, toss me off that cliff. I cannot do it. My brain will find any excuse to not finish those 25 minutes. I will look at that timer and be like, why would I listen to this little piece of plastic? I don't want to do this. This is not going to make me do this Pomodoro method. No, thank you. It just doesn't give that motivation. Those are the two that I think that I hear the most. Or the wall calendar like putting up a wall calendar, you use it for one month and then it stays blank for the rest of the year. I think the reason these things wind me up so much is because of the effect on self-confidence that they have. You think, because of the effect on self-confidence that they have, you think I should be able to do this.
Speaker 2:This was marketed for people with ADHD. Like I should be able to be successful at this. Well, not necessarily. It might work for Jimmy over here, but Taylor over here needs a different method. So, blindly following these generic hacks, these tips and tricks that you can find on the internet that guarantee success, like, give me a break. One, everybody's different. And two, these hacks were designed to work for neurotypical brains. Neurodivergent brains work completely differently. I mean, we mentioned it earlier, there are physical differences in your brain. When you have ADHD, your cerebellum is smaller. You've got different connections firing. It's very interesting, but it's also very telling. The things that are designed for people with a more typical or more common brain, they're just not going to get the same benefit. They're not going to have the same benefit if you put it in front of a neurodiverse person. So it's all about finding what works for you and designing long-term solutions that you can implement, put into your existing lifestyle to make it sustainable. But jumping from hack to hack to hack, you're wasting your time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's a good point and, like you said, it's different for everyone. I'm actually reading the book. It's called 4,000 Weeks. Are you familiar with that book?
Speaker 2:You only have 4,000 Weeks anxiety-inducing, but it is so eye-opening Are you ready so? Eye-opening. I've not read it yet, I've done the SparkNotes version, but I think it's actually number three on my list right now. It's up there.
Speaker 1:So I've had it for a while it's been sitting dormant in my audible queue and last week, for some reason, I just got motivated to book. Now I start a lot of books and I almost never finish them, so I was like, all right, this will be another one, I'll start and stop, and I've only read maybe three chapters. It's really interesting and I'm assuming he eventually is going to get to, because it is about the shortness of life, but it also is, at least what I've read so far. It's a lot about how time hacks and efficiency and productivity is essentially all a scam and it's all a waste of time because the more efficient and productive you become, the more efficient and productive you want to become, and there's no end. And so there is no. You don't ever solve it. So it's. You know. It's similar to like the best employee who does the most work. Then who does the boss give the most work, extra work to? Exactly Because you've proven you can take it on right.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So it's like so it's. And his point is not to like obviously you want to try to be efficient with your time, like you don't just like do whatever, but that like the techniques you're talking about and the planners, and there's all these things, and these days, right, there's AI, there's all these apps and it's it's endless. And he's basically like you, just you just end up spinning your wheels and you actually don't really accomplish nearly what you like set out to accomplish. Anyway, that's his point so far, and maybe eventually it shifts and maybe there is something that he comes up with at the end. It's like you know, if you're going to do it, do this, but it's interesting. But yeah, I turned 50 in the summer, next summer, and so, reading that book, I'm like I'm actually.
Speaker 1:I'm actually way. I don't have that many weeks left. I'm down to like 1500.
Speaker 2:that's why the book is so anxiety inducing, why it hasn't gone up in my list, cause it's like I have used so many of my weeks. What?
Speaker 1:are you doing for your 50th, though, do?
Speaker 2:you have fun plans.
Speaker 1:I don't know. We've gone back and forth. I wanted to go hiking out West and my kids shut that down like a Fortnite sniper.
Speaker 2:Like a Fortnite sniper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that that didn't last very long and then we've just kicked around. We've kicked around ideas. Nothing has really stuck. But we have to plan something, because July is now a lot closer than it was, you know, in March when we first started talking about it. So, yeah, I don't know, we'll find, honestly, it'll end up being a beach and water, because that's what everybody wants and we don't have that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you like the mountains, don't you? You're the hiking mountains guy.
Speaker 1:I've actually never done it. What, yeah, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to do it, because I was like, oh, it's different.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, you have to go out west. We took a family vacation in 2018. But we went out to Moab and Colorado. Oh, zion and Colorado, zion. It was incredibly beautiful. You know, you always think you have to go overseas to find these like gorgeous hiking places, like go hiking in the Swiss Alps or you know, whatever Never done that would love to. But oh my God, the amount of just natural beauty that you can find in the United States. Holy cow, we just went to. Earlier this year we went to Tucson my, my partner and I. We went to saguaro national park. If you had told me before the trip that I was going to be that in awe of a desert, I would have laughed in your face, but I was in awe of the desert no, it's, it is.
Speaker 1:it is true how much is here and how you don't have to take the exotic international trips. I think part of the problem is because I have a midsummer birthday and so when we started to think seriously about Utah because we were going to do, I think there's five national parks within four or five hours or something.
Speaker 1:But in the heat in July, right yeah, it's so hot. And so my kids were like know, we're not necessarily against hiking, but like isn't it gonna be 110 degrees? Like how long are we realistically going to be able to do it? And then and they weren't wrong so I think we either would have had to either move the trip up and take it in the spring, or push it back and take it in the fall. I just don't think summer hiking would have been, you know, the best no, to try to do it around the same time you know, so it'll it'll probably just be um.
Speaker 1:Well, so lisa, who I was mentioning, she they do a trip every year um to the outer banks, and so I love the outer banks. That's my neck of the woods yeah, so that's close to you, so if we, maybe we'll make it over there. We've been to carolina. We went to emerald isle three, four years ago, went to Hilton Head two years ago, so we are familiar with kind of that part of the country. I don't know, but that's probably what it would be. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2:So I grew up on the coast of North Carolina on an island called Baltet Island, and that one is a phenomenal family vacation. If you guys do want to do a beach, highly recommend it. It's the best. It was the most incredible place to grow up, and you have to take a ferry to get there. There's no cars, so it's really safe for kids, so they can go out and do their own thing Y'all can do your own thing, it's like and then come back together. It's awesome. It's an awesome family vacation especially if you have older kids younger kids too nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll check that out. So as we wrap up here, we'll finish up with adc in a second.
Speaker 2:I want to ask about.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah I want to ask about your tattoos, because people aren't going to see this, but we are on video, but you have quite a few of them I do you're. You're rolling up your sleeve now and I can see more of them.
Speaker 2:There's a lot.
Speaker 1:How many did you have, when did you start getting them and what's your long-term ink plan?
Speaker 2:Okay, so my first tattoo. I got on a street corner for 20 bucks in a third world country when. I was 17 years old. Wow, yes, did not use a new needle, did not use new ink Super safe, super safe.
Speaker 2:Super safe. Came back to the States I was living abroad at that time Came back to the States and went with one of my girlfriends to get her first tattoo and saw what the artist was doing like opening up a new ink and you know there's this plastic wrapped needle and I immediately booked a blood test at the local clinic to check that I did not have like HIV or something.
Speaker 2:I do not, I am perfectly healthy Narrowly missed that one but they are truly addicting. I mean, I have them. You can see them everywhere, shoulder, like all the way down my arm, all the way down these arms. They're addicting. I mean, I have them. You can see them everywhere, shoulder, like all the way down my arm, all the way down these arms. They're addicting.
Speaker 1:So once you get one, like it's really hard to stop.
Speaker 2:Plus, this sounds so bizarre and maybe I don't even. I don't know. Maybe this is a neurodivergent thing, but I love the feeling of getting a tattoo. It hurts, but I I asleep on the table before. It's like free. Well, it's not free because they're expensive, but it is like therapy. It is just like therapy, and then you're exhausted afterwards you take the best nap. Highly recommend going to get a tattoo.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'll eventually just be fully covered. Uh, next time we talk I'm gonna have them on my cheeks. Get ready. And then the teardrops teardrops.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go. Yeah, because you've got a. I can see a bunch. You have a bunch on your arms, like your forearms and your wrist, um, and stuff. Do you just do you get them? Is there any kind of like rhyme or reason? Or you just get motivated. You're like I'm gonna get one and you just go a or reason or you just get motivated and you're like I'm going to get one and you just go.
Speaker 2:A lot of times I just get motivated and just go. One of the more recent ones, I wonder if I can get it all the way up. You'll be able to see it. This is a drawing from my kid's favorite TV show, bluey.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:The dad in Bluey drew this wonky horse thing and the kids thought it was so funny and they said you got to go get this as a tattoo. And the next day guess what I did- Exactly that.
Speaker 2:I got it as a tattoo, so there really is no rhyme and reason. I mean, I've got, I do have. I don't think I can roll my sweater up that high, but up here I do have. All of my family and my best friends all drew a star and then I got all of their stars tattooed on my upper arm and so it's like my whole universe of all the people that I love on my arm. So some of them have some meaning, others, like this wonky little horse, just happened.
Speaker 1:No, I love it. I don't have any for a long time. Well, when I was growing up, they weren't as popular, so it was like getting one kind of was more it's very taboo yeah, now obviously society has switched and they're much more common and people have them, and people have sleeves and color and like it's very, it's just gone the other way. And so now I'm like okay, now maybe I shouldn't get one because I'm more it's's. The pendulum has swung, so I think I'm now more unique if I don't have any.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. You're so, so much cooler if you don't have them now.
Speaker 1:But there's been a couple of times when I've gotten like I don't know how serious, but I've at least like thought about it, but I can never decide where, I can never decide what, and then I just ended up, you know, eventually going away. When I first started this journey, I was going to get I can send you the picture.
Speaker 2:It was a big, this huge lion mane like right here. I like it.
Speaker 1:And I showed somebody and she talked me out of it because she had several and she was like first of all, that's way too complicated for your first one, because that's gonna take. It's gonna take forever, you're gonna need multiple sittings. Uh, she was like, since you don't have any, she was like I would recommend getting a small one first, just to make sure that you're like down with the process. And she was like, if that one goes well, she was like then well, and then the other thing she was like.
Speaker 1:She was like there aren't that many tattoo artists that can do that. What? What I showed her? She was like there aren't that many that can do that. Well, so you're really going to have to do some research. You're going to have to talk to people and make sure they're capable, because that's not an amateur or like a new artist. She was like you need someone with real ability because otherwise they can really screw that up. And then what?
Speaker 2:Yes, and then you're stuck with it. I will tell you it. Also, don't ask me about tattoo ideas. One of my toxic ADHD traits is impulsivity. I will do anything without thinking about it, which leads me to that point. Yes, please research your tattoo artist. Psa for everyone. Don't go to a random tattoo artist if you have not fully researched them. I have a massive tattoo on my If you have not fully researched them. I have a massive tattoo on my hip and it's so, oh, it's so bad, it's so bad, it's so bad. Then I got it covered up by the same guy because, again, impulsivity is not my strong suit. Well, I guess it is my strong suit. Should have just gotten it layered off, but no, now I've got a cover-up that's even bigger on my hip and it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Nice, it's beautiful. It makes for a good story.
Speaker 2:It does make for a good story until you see it, and then you just feel real sorry for me.
Speaker 1:Let's look at my arms. Let's focus up here.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Look at these. These are nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I have many. No, it's fun. I think it's fun. Maybe someday I'll take the plunge, but it's been great.
Speaker 2:We're almost at an hour. Look at us.
Speaker 1:No way, this is your first podcast. You're a true pro, sound great and it's just been amazing all of your insight. So any final thoughts ADHD in general or people out there that are struggling, kind of what they can do and then how people can find you on LinkedIn and your website.
Speaker 2:I'll put it in the show notes too, thank you. Yeah, I think, honestly, for people with ADHD that are struggling, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Your brain is not broken, it is just different, and you just have to find those different solutions that work for you. But, honestly, take the time to invest in yourself. Take the time to show up for yourself, because it is so worth it. Do the hard work now. You will scream this from the rooftops, tom Cruise style of jump on the couch. Your brain is beautiful and you deserve to see that. You deserve to be able to work with it and feel comfortable using it, because I guarantee it has given you so many gifts that you aren't aware of yet. But you can be. So invest in yourself, take the time.
Speaker 1:Love it, and where can people find you if they want more information?
Speaker 2:time, Love it, and where can people find you if they want more information? Yes, so I have a. Obviously my LinkedIn. My LinkedIn handle is Caitlin Johnson, ADHD coach. Come connect with me, schedule a call with me. I would love to chat and I'm building a website now not finished, slowly but surely, and so once that, once that goes out, I'll have it LinkedIn on linked on my LinkedIn anyways.
Speaker 1:Awesome, sounds good. Looking forward to seeing and hearing more about that. Thanks so much for your time and energy today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, and we'll talk soon. This has been so fun, sounds good.
Speaker 1:Thanks.