The Real You
1:1 Long-Form Interviews with Interesting People Doing Amazing Things
In-depth discussion of people's journeys to tap into their full potential and find ways to be the truest version of themselves.
The Real You
EP 36: Copy That Doesn't Suck: The Real Deal on Writing for Impact with Stacy Eleczko
Join Stacy Eleczko and me for a conversation about:
1️⃣ Your Words Might Be Repelling Clients (Without You Realizing It)
- The hidden psychology behind business messaging and why "sounding good" isn’t enough.
- Many business owners struggle not because of bad offers but because they fail to communicate their unique value effectively.
2️⃣ The Difference Between Generic Copy & Strategic Messaging
- Why most entrepreneurs overlook buyer psychology when writing their website copy.
- How messaging that speaks to audience needs, desires, and decision-making processes leads to conversions.
3️⃣ Building a Business Through Authenticity, Not Influence
- Stacey shares how she’s grown her business through LinkedIn connections, not chasing likes.
- The power of relationship-driven marketing over traditional "influencer" tactics.
4️⃣ Why Pulp Fiction is one of the Greatest Movies ever made
- You dig it the most
- Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead
Stacy's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/copybystacy/
Stacy's Website: https://stacyeleczko.com/
David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/
David's Website: https://davidjyoung.me/
Welcome to the Real you Podcast. This is episode number 36. I'm David Young, your host. I'm a LinkedIn content and business coach. I help coaches with less than 3,000 followers sign more clients using content and LinkedIn more strategically. I launched this podcast in March of 2024 to spotlight interesting people doing amazing things, and today I'm joined by Stacey Olesko, a messaging strategist and website copywriter for impact-driven brands.
Speaker 1:Stacey helps business-to-business brands find clarity on what sets them apart and communicates that with bold, compelling copy that helps them attract the right clients, shorten the sales cycle and build trust. She believes you can be driven by making an impact and an income. She also is a self-proclaimed book nerd and a cookie connoisseur, and in this episode we're going to talk why so many people struggle with copywriting and she says it is a lot more than just writing catchy copy, which I'm sure is true and how she's built her business during LinkedIn and networking. And finally, we'll talk about our mutual love of Pulp Fiction, which I actually could talk the whole episode about, so we will try not to delve into this being just a complete breakdown of that movie. So, stacey, thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, appreciate it. Yeah, so we won't start. We'll start with Pulp Fiction briefly. We'll come back to it Because, like I said, we could just go the whole hour. So I saw that movie in the theater, I was 19. And it just turned 30 last fall, so that gives away my age. But but I quote it so often that when I met my wife in 2001, she didn't realize that like half of my vocabulary was from that movie. And then the next time we watched it she was like this is everything that you say. You just literally, you just say this movie. I'm like well, it's so good, why wouldn't I? And she was like you don't have anything original. I'm like Tarantino says it better than I do, so I just I'm just stealing it anyway right, exactly, if it works right, it's not broke yeah, yeah, exactly, um, but yeah, I still.
Speaker 1:I haven't seen it all the way through in a long time, but I do still, I do still quote from it quite a bit.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking that when, uh, you know I was getting ready to talk with you and I'm like I haven'tp Fiction all the way through in a really long time. It's time to you know, watch it again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it's funny. As much as I love the movie I mean it's easily one of my top five all time it might even be at the top. I'd have to think about it. But my only. I only have two major concerns and I typically will not watch it straight through. One is I do not like the Christopher Walken scene when he's talking to young Butch about the watch. Now, I know that's critical to the plot, but I just can't watch him talk about that. It just really bothers me. And the second part is Bruce.
Speaker 1:Also, butch Butch's girlfriend drives me absolutely up the wall. I cannot stand all any. I know she's not in it that much, but that scene in the hotel just drives me crazy. I'm like how did Tarantino not cut this? Like this is we don't need her. Butch can just be in the hotel by himself, like we don't need her. It doesn't add anything to the movie and it drives me crazy. And the only saving grace is the very last line, because when he comes back and she's like whose motorcycle is this? And he's like it's a chopper, and she Zed, who's Zed? Zed's dead baby, and then that's it. So that kind of saves it, but everything leading up to that I can't. So that's the only reason I would probably not keep it at one. The rest of the movie, I think, is flawless.
Speaker 2:That's hysterical. I love how specific you are. I do not like these two pieces. I can't watch them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I feel like to be the greatest movie ever. I should be able to just press play and just watch the whole thing, but I won't. I will fast forward those two scenes. I can't listen to her voice and I can't listen to the walk-in scene. The rest of it I'm pretty good with.
Speaker 2:So what is your favorite scene?
Speaker 1:That's hard to say. There's so many great ones. I mean I could do from the time that Jules and Vincent are driving at the beginning after the initial diner scene, when they're driving Jungle Boogie's on. I can probably quote. I could probably do every line, like all the way through the apartment scene, like with Brett, like I think I could do it. I haven't seen it in a while but I think I could probably get every line. There's something about that whole exchange, like in the car, out of the car in the car, out of the car in the hotel lobby or in the hallway, and then the whole apartment scene with with jules is like that's like the fifth, that might be the 15 best minutes, like in the history of movie, like the eating the burger, the sprite, the guy on the couch, travolta smoking the cigarette in the back, and then that whole dialogue, like it's that, that whole thing is.
Speaker 2:I think it's like, honestly, it's so good I guarantee you, if you looked up like iconic pulp fiction scenes, that would be the top every single time yeah, it's just, I don't know.
Speaker 1:There's just something about it, especially when you don't really know what's happening. You're just like what? Like what's going on? Like you, you think they're bad guys and they are, but they're so likable but you have no idea whose other guys are and you're like what's in the case? And then they're like eating and just the whole, just the whole sequence, and then just the whole thing, like just samuel jackson's delivery of those lines leading into the bible verse which is made up. It's not even a real bible verse. Uh, they just made. They just made that up for the movie, but uh, just that whole thing is, it's just gold, like it's. That's perfect, honestly I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're so philosophical right like it's perfect, honestly, I love it. Yeah, they're so philosophical right Like it's this violent and these awful scenes and things that are happening and then they talk about, you know, this divine intervention and all of that. I love it.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the beauty is right, because it takes a while to really like understand. You have to watch it several times to even piece it all together. Right, because it's so disjointed. But piece it all together right because it's so disjointed, but it's, it's amazing because you start in the diner, you go to that scene, all this other stuff happens, but they end up back in the diner, which is brilliant because that's where it like all comes together. But it's confusing because revolt has been killed, so that throws people off, just like what he's dead.
Speaker 1:No, that's that was before. Like oh, um, but then, yeah, like samuel jackson has this whole like epiphany and like you know, I love that scene of the antitech. Normally I would have just killed you and like I wouldn't even thought about it, but you caught me in a transitional period. Then he goes through like the whole. He does the whole bible verse again, but he like breaks it down into like it could mean like these three things, and then he finally says what it means, like that's like tarantino, it's just genius, the whole thing's brilliant it was genius and I think that cast right Like they just couldn't have picked better people.
Speaker 2:It was amazing, yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. I mean it was a real renaissance for Travolta and I mean Samuel L Jackson was known at that time but not the way he's known now. And I think it just, yeah, really put Travolta kind of back on the map and vaulted Samuel L Jackson. But I mean I know tarantino hasn't done a ton of movies, which is kind of his thing, but I think pulp fiction's by far and away like like his, his best work for sure, yes, and I love with herman too well, yeah, yeah, so for sure, anyway.
Speaker 1:So that was probably too much. That was like five minutes on pulp fiction. People were already like I thought you said this wasn't going to be an hour on Pulp Fiction. You're like, it's all you've talked about. Yeah, my apologies, it's totally my fault, my show, my fault, but we might come back to it because, again, I love it so much. So, yeah, so thanks for coming on. So we know each other from LinkedIn. We've had a call at least one call, maybe two. I think you helped me with some efficiency stuff stuff a while back. Yeah, so just talk a little bit about your background and then like how you found LinkedIn and we'll take it from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. Transitioned out of education. I had been in teaching in a variety of roles for a long time and had been looking to make a shift, and that was when I discovered copywriting and did not realize I was launching not only into a new craft but also into figuring out how to be an entrepreneur. So I'm glad I didn't know what I didn't know because I probably wouldn't be here. But yeah, so I eased in. I started building my copywriting business on the side while I was still working full time, you know, slowly worked my way until I was able to resign from my job and just focus on my business full time. And in the meantime I needed something that felt like kind of, I think, low hanging fruit. Right, where can I start to network and grow my business?
Speaker 2:I didn't really know much about LinkedIn, but I was told you should be on LinkedIn. So I hopped on, realized I actually had created a profile I don't know, I think, in like 2012, 2013,. Hadn't touched it since and, just you know, got on there to sort of see what all the fuss was about. Um did all the classic things that everybody does, I think when you start on LinkedIn. Followed all the wrong people, um, stressed about the hours it would take me to write a post and almost gave up on it. And then, um, I was like there has to be something else to what I'm doing, and I think I realized my goal is to grow my business, not to be a LinkedIn influencer, so I need to not follow the people whose job it is is to build influence on LinkedIn. And I think once I made that realization and started actually meeting people, I realized that it was really. It was a platform for building relationships and connections, not just like a lead generation system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. No, it's a great point about the difficulty of entrepreneurship. I don't think any of us would have started this if we actually knew how hard it was. We would have been like, all right, we'll just keep working. It sucks, but we'll just do it anyway. Yeah, it's a lot, and nobody really, like you said, nobody realizes how much it is until you start doing it and you're like, oh my god, there's so much that's interesting about the content and you almost gave up.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people. I think that resonates with a lot of people because content creation comes pretty easily for me. It even did when I started, even though I didn't know what I was doing. I'm a natural storyteller, so I can go to the Kroger right now and come back with two stories that are 20 minutes long. It just happens to me.
Speaker 1:People get in the way and I make fun of them and then they've never checked out at the grocery store before and I draw that and then whatever. But that's not normal. I understand that now from talking to enough people. A lot of people struggle. I don't know what to write about or how to write it. I don't even know what stories to tell or is this relevant, and so I do. I think a lot of people like get very frustrated like very quickly, and especially if you do start looking at people that have been doing it for like years and years, like the big, the big people that have hundreds of thousands of followers right, and then you know they do one post and it gets a million reactions in like 20 seconds and so're like oh well, I'll never get there and so I'm out.
Speaker 2:So I'm glad that you got away from that and kind of found your kind of found your lane in your tribe yes, well, and I think I felt like I had to show my expertise right and that it didn't feel like a good fit for me. And everybody kept talking about just tell stories, just tell stories, and I was like I don't know what you mean by just tell stories. And then it's now, it's like oh well, that's natural, just makes sense, right? You just, you tell a story. It feels so easy. But I think for me it was, you know, being new to business and being new to copywriting at the well, I mean, I had some copywriting under my belt, but when I you know, I was newer in the space and so I was like, oh, how many stories do I really have to tell? And then the more you meet people and the more clients you work with, the easier that piece becomes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. I've talked to people, not even like a sales call, just in a connection call, and I'll ask them a little bit about their background and they'll rattle off for two or three minutes about all this stuff and I'll say to them that's at least 10 to 15 pieces of content. And to them, that's at least 10 to 15 pieces of content. And they're like really, I thought that was none. I'm like no, that's important, especially if you're trying to grow a business. People want to know where did you come from? What did you do before? How did you get here? Why are you here? If you've done anything for any period of time, you've learned lessons. You've worked for bad bosses, good bosses, crappy companies, good companies, co, like all this stuff. Even if you work traditional office jobs, you have all of that adds to whatever it is that you're doing right. So people want to do that, because then they start to see themselves in that and they've either experienced that or not. But it's important.
Speaker 1:But I think a lot of people yeah, like you said, you struggle and I think that's why we see a lot of content. Or I see a lot of content. I feel like it's just very surface level. It's like how-to tips, like 10 ways to feel better or 10 ways to do this or whatever, which is fine, but I can Google that If I want to know about that. Gpt, google and YouTube can tell me almost anything I want to know. So there's no new information, but I want to hear it from you. What's your experience? How do you use it or how have you used it Like? I think that's where people like get tripped up and don't understand like why it's so important to tell that part of it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, that's always my thing. I'm like if somebody can just Google this or take my name off it, I don't need to post about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I wish more people. I wish more people would keep would keep that in mind. I wish more people would keep that in mind. There'd be a lot less content, I think. So when you finally moved full force into copywriting, what was your initial Not necessarily business plan, but what was your offer? How were you trying to market that service?
Speaker 2:So do you mean Ask me again?
Speaker 1:Like trying to offer your copywriting services? Were you trying to help? Was it always web copy? Were you trying to help people write emails Like? In what capacity were you like trying to use like your copywriting background?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I started off with website copywriting. And then what I realized with website copywriting is that my clients were coming to me and they wanted a website that sounded better and I could do that for them. But they didn't necessarily have all the foundation, foundational pieces in place. Right, the strategy to make sure that the words were not just going to sound nice, but they would actually be effective and help them sell more of what they offer and that's how I got into messaging strategy was this idea of really like you have to have a real deep understanding of your audience. You have to have an understanding of buyer psychology, right? It's not just about writing copy, it's about all of these underlying research pieces that are going to make your copy effective. And so that was how I started getting into the messaging strategy piece. So my offer from the beginning really has been website copywriting, and then it got married with website copywriting with messaging strategy.
Speaker 2:The thing I love about website copywriting is it gives me a chance to start to build relationships with clients who then might come back later and say, hey, now I'm working on my email list, or I'm struggling with lead magnets for my email list, or hey, I have the sales page for this course that I'm launching.
Speaker 2:So I definitely do those other pieces for my clients too. Um, but more and more recently people have been coming to me for messaging strategy, specifically um, with or without the website. So I would say when I first made that shift to like full time and just focusing on um copywriting and I'm no longer at my job it was that website copywriting and messaging strategy that that's what I was promoting the most as a done for you service. But then also I have it as a done with you service, just because people were essentially asking. They were coming and saying like, hey, I would love to work with you, it's not in my budget, you know what can we do and I wanted to make sure I could help those people. So long winded answer. It's sort of evolved but stayed the same.
Speaker 1:No, I like that and I totally feel you on the done with you and done for you. I think I think the done for you sounds great until you tell them how much that costs and they're like let's do it together. Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and some clients like that piece of it. Right, they want to. You know I've had some clients who actually could afford the done with you services or not. You shouldn't say like it was in their budget to do that. But when we talk about what goes into the messaging and they recognize that sometimes when you do it collaboratively, it's a deeper understanding you have of your business and they've actually opted for that instead.
Speaker 1:Interesting? Yeah, cause they want to maybe feel like a little more part of it instead of just just giving you everything. Now I think you recently launched a. It's like a boot, it's like a messaging bootcamp. Um, how did that? How did that kind of come to be?
Speaker 2:Yes. So that all started with and actually this all started with. I had the done for you messaging strategy service. I had a client who came to me originally for, so I started with done with you website. I had a client who came to me for the done with you website and as we were having the conversation, I said you know, I don't think it's time for you to invest yet because there's some messaging pieces that you've got to figure out. And so we started talking about messaging and he said do you have a done with you messaging you know package? And I didn't. But I was like, let's figure it out. Yes, we're going to create this done with you messaging strategy package. So I did it.
Speaker 2:I created um, basically took the system that I was using, crafted it into a workbook and had a session before for strategy session so I could make sure I could point them in the right direction. And then a strategy coaching session at the end. And I asked him you know like, hey, I have this while you beta test it for me, got a few other people to beta test it and they all loved it. They had really, really good results. But what happened with every single person? It was. There was some point where I got a text or an email or a DM on LinkedIn where they were overwhelmed and stuck, and so the feedback I got from everybody was this just would have been helpful, either broken into smaller chunks or with little bits of support and accountability along the way. And that's where I realized I have this huge back. Extensive background in education. I know how to do that. Why am I not leveraging the skills and expertise I already have with creating courses and building collaborative communities to create the cohort? So that was how that came to be.
Speaker 1:Nice. I love that you were able to bridge your, you know, kind of previous, you know work life into this one. It's always nice when you feel like not that that was a waste, because, like we talked about earlier, you're always learning. But when you can really apply it, like directly, apply it to what you're doing, I feel like that's even that even feels better Because it's really integrated nicely. So I'm happy you were able to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's been a huge win for me. I didn't realize really how much of this, how many of the skills that I had were transferable, and so many, so many of them, it's like directly transferable skills to what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:No, I love that, now that you've done, to gone through that you've obviously refined it is that I assume that's something you're going to kind of keep, that'll kind of continue to be part of your, of your offer and your package.
Speaker 2:I think. So that's that's sort of next stage of my business is figuring out exactly what pieces you know really about simplifying and focusing things in 2025. That's that's the big thing for me, and so I for sure I'm focusing on continuing to do both done for you with website copywriting and messaging strategy, and done with you, and what I'm thinking through now is that piece of where do cohorts fit, or maybe smaller workshops, and what does that look like in the bigger picture? Also, another big goal I have is speaking engagements, getting on more stages and doing more training and workshops. So, yeah, I'm figuring out what that's going to look like.
Speaker 1:Nice yeah, so I know you did. You went to Donnie's. Uh, is it Boivin? Is that his last name?
Speaker 2:Bovin is actually how you say it.
Speaker 1:Okay, bovin. Um, you went to his event in September in Dallas last year. I know you got to speak briefly there and then you're doing a more longer term speaking. I don't know if it's in September or not, but I know it's later in the year. So, yeah, talk a little bit about that. That was a cool experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was really cool. So you know I have a lot of experience speaking from education. I had done keynotes and long speeches and, you know, spoken in front of all kinds of audiences before and hadn't done it, you know, for my own business, except for I'd been to a few women's lunches and spoken like that. But really getting on a stage I hadn't done. And so when I went to the summit last September, one of the opportunities as a VIP was to submit a six minute video of a speech that you would want to get on stage and do, and then they picked six winners from that. I was one of those people and then I got on stage and was able to to deliver mine and, um, as a result of winning that, I get to go back this september and do a 45 minute one, um, so I'm super excited about it and I'm just hoping.
Speaker 2:You know the nerves were out of control, off the charts. It was very, very like surreal. I really don't even remember delivering the whole thing and it was so different Because I was like this is my business. Now, this is very different than all these other speeches I had done Because it was so much more personal. So, yeah, it was like nerve wracking and really fun all at the same time.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. How many people was that in front of? Nerve wracking and really fun all?
Speaker 2:at the same time. That's awesome. How many people was that in front of? Um? Well, there were 150 people at the summit, so I don't know if everybody was still there by the last day, but there are at least 100 people in the room.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then did you. So you did you. I assume you knew beforehand that you had been selected. You were able to prep it. It wasn't like on the spot, correct?
Speaker 2:Well, yes and no, so I did know ahead of time. Well, yes and no, so I did know ahead of time, um, but I I really should have prepped more. I didn't prep as much, and the reason why is we also had an opportunity on the very I think it was the first day they were um doing speaker, helping us create speaker reels, so we had a chance to just get on stage for 90 seconds, say whatever we want, just for to be able to have a video. And I practiced that. And I got up there and I was felt terrible because I was trying to remember everything I said. So I was like Alright, I'm not practicing, I've got this, you know, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go up and just kind of wing it.
Speaker 2:But then I was trying to remember what I said in my six minute video, so I was like jotting notes down at the last minute. I still actually haven't watched it. I can't bring myself to go back and watch it. My husband said he watched it and he's like you looked so confident the entire time until you stopped speaking. And then he said the second you stopped talking, you literally turned and ran off the stage.
Speaker 1:So I will be more prepared for this next one uh, yeah, you've got a lot more time, um, so I'm trying to think I would like to do speaking too. I could easily talk for six minutes. I don't know if I could talk for 45, though that's a long time to talk it is.
Speaker 2:But well, first of all I could geek out talking about like copywriting and messaging strategy forever right, like if somebody told you get up and talk about pulpp Fiction for 45 minutes.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you could easily do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've really just been working through, thinking about like what are some anecdotes and vignettes and things that I could tell that I could pull together? And I have been doing other speaking engagements. This week I spoke to a community and they've all been about 45 minutes hour sessions and so, um, I feel like I have enough, I know I have enough to be able to really talk about and fill that time. It's just now weaving it into kind of this narrative, narrative that, um, I could easily talk about on stage without feeling like I have to memorize something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of that mix, right, you kind of want the talking points in your head but then you want it to feel like very natural. You don't want it to feel super rehearsed and like memorized and stuff. When I was in the seventh grade I'm sorry, ninth grade I ran for class president as a joke and I won, which is a really long story and I won't tell it. But I did not. I would never have done this. But I didn't learn this until a month before. But, as outgoing student council president, I had to give a speech at awards night in front of like 200 people, of parents and students. They didn't, they. There was literally a secret until 30 days before. And then the teacher that ran it was like oh, like, make sure you're working on your speech. And I was like what are you talking about? And she was like oh well, I'm going to see you have to give the speech. I was like why didn't somebody tell me that back in August when I did this as a joke, I would have just scrapped it then like, what are you? How you're holding out on me anyway. So, my friend, you got to write me a speech. I got to get me out of this. So he did.
Speaker 1:I had it on note cards. I did not practice it. I go out there. I literally read the whole thing in like 30 seconds. I never looked up. I looked down and I was like, but the thing, you're welcome to work. I was like the micro machine man, if you remember that, that was the fastest thing you've ever seen and I bailed, it had to. But you know, these days, you know there'd be like 57 million recordings, but in whatever 1989, there were none. So yeah, don't do that.
Speaker 2:OK, yeah, yeah, Noted, I joined this. It's a mic drop. I think it's called the Mic Drop Club. It's for women speakers and I was really. Actually we had our first meeting yesterday, and so it's over the course of a year. There's these virtual meetings and then there's in-person meetings and there's a chapter in Raleigh where I am, and so that's exactly what we were kind of talking about yesterday, right, Is that delivery? And we have a tendency. You know you need to be up here when you're speaking because you're going to naturally sort of tone it down. Or for me, I talk really fast, and so how do you slow that down to make sure that it's easy for people to understand and you know engaging to listen to? And so, yeah, that's what we were talking about yesterday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's awesome. I've. When I I did, I took a speaker's bootcamp late last year and so that was very helpful just in terms of like tone and pausing and intentionality and inflection of how you say certain things and there's just a lot more to think about. But one of the things they talked about was like really studying stand like the good standup comics. That standup comedians are masters at a lot of the things you need to be good at to be a public speaker because they have to allow jokes to breathe. You have to read the audience. They pause.
Speaker 1:It feels like they're telling a story like the good ones are, just like they're so good at it. So she was like, if you're ever like stuck, are you looking for inspiration? She was like, just find a comedian you really like and watch. You know 20 or 30 minutes of one of their presentations but don't really like listen for the jokes, like in terms of the humor, but like just watch, like how they move, how they talk, and so that's. I've kind of always kept that in mind. So now when I I don't watch a ton of standup, but when I do I'm I'm a lot more like mindful of, like they're pausing and like how they're delivering and stuff, and uh, it's interesting when you start paying attention to those kinds of things, like how important that is when you're speaking in public and you're not just, you know, talking for 45 straight minutes without a breath.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, I had. I got the same advice from a speaking coach I worked with a little bit the end of last year and one of the things she suggested was like go do improv. And I was like that is not happening. But I she's like that's how you figure out all of those little pieces, how do you know when to pause and when to shift and what the body language should be like? As I said, I did six minutes to stand up.
Speaker 1:I can Do you know when to pause and when to shift and what the body language should be like. You didn't have to. I was going to say I did six minutes of stand-up. I can walk you through that. That's no problem. We can knock that out, yeah easy I love it, perfect.
Speaker 1:And it was six minutes. And when I first signed up for it I thought six minutes was going to be a lot. And then it's not. It's very short. I had I had so much more material I had to. I had a hard time like narrowing it down to try to make it, uh, make sense. And then they were very strict, like do not go over, like the red light's gonna flash. You have 30 seconds. Like do not abuse your time, like they were very rigid on on the time. But uh, yeah it was. I mean it was nerve-wracking, but I'd been thinking about doing it for a long time and again it wasn't really like jokes. It was nerve-wracking, but I'd been thinking about doing it for a long time and again it wasn't really like jokes, it was just stories and I just tell stories anyway. So really it was just like getting up, I had a microphone and I told stories in front of strangers and that was the only difference.
Speaker 2:Are you going to do it again?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd 100% do it again. In fact, as we were leaving, the main guy, the, the main mc, was like, if this went well and you liked it, be careful because it's very addicting, like don't. Like don't leave your family and think you're just going to start a career on the road and become like the next nate bargazzi in, like you know, the next six months. It was like those guys have been doing it for like 20 years. It takes a really long time, so don't, don't quit your day job that's funny yeah that was great yeah that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna be a national headliner in vegas in like two weeks. Um, yeah, so no, it is. I mean it is great experience. I mean, if anyone out there is listening, who's ever thought about doing um, well, it's not really. I mean, improv is different, where you're like trying to come up with stuff off the top of your head. I think that would be harder because the stand-up, I mean I rehearsed, rehearsed it a ton, like I was saying it out loud like a lot, so I was pretty well prepared. But I think improv would be much more challenging. When you're like put on the spot, you have to think of like something funny or something that like makes sense or doesn't, you know, depending on like the skit. So yeah, that would be like a whole nother level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because her rationale right was you can practice all you want, but when you're on stage and you're giving a speech, if you recognize something's not hitting and you don't know how to pivot, yeah the whole thing right goes to hell. And so that's why that was the sort of the where the recommendation came from is you've got to be ready to think on your feet because you might have the most perfect speech and it lands every single time until you're with this one audience and it doesn't there?
Speaker 1:uh, that actually reminds me. Do you like nate bargatze? Have you ever watched any of his stuff?
Speaker 1:I've some so he tells the story. He got invited, uh, to do a talk, or it was like at a conference, so it wasn't like his normal, like routine. But he was just going to talk for like 10 or 15 minutes and so he did and the crowd like nothing, like no response whatsoever. He was just going to talk for like 10 or 15 minutes and so he did and the crowd like nothing, like no response whatsoever. He was like this is weird. And so he went to like a couple of like really like wheelhouse stories, like kills, every time nothing. And he, he was like I don't, like, I don't understand. And so he eventually got off and then found the guy was like what happened? And the guy was like oh yeah, I forgot to tell you. They don't speak english, so they had no idea what you're saying. So he was like I would have been good to know, like you could have like told me that yeah, so, um, yeah, so, yeah, the audience, the audience does matter and sometimes, uh, it just doesn't go that well. Um, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I I'm still trying to plan my year. I'd love to get to donnie's event this year. Is it in September again?
Speaker 2:It's in September. Yeah, it's, the tickets are already on sale. You should absolutely do it. It's, it was so worthwhile. Um, yeah, so many things happened there that just changed the trajectory of my business.
Speaker 1:Love it. Yeah, I, I need to, uh, I need to look into that. Um, I've never been to Dallas other than just I connected in the airport many years ago, but I haven't spent any time in the city, so I know several, I have several connections down there, and then I've met Donnie before and I'm familiar a little bit with him and so, yeah, I need to put that, I need to look more seriously and put that on the radar. So, with the bootcamp and your messaging, do you find yourself, when you look at websites now, just constantly critiquing them?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, it's the worst thing. I'm like we're watching my husband, my whole family, my husband, my son they're obsessed with hockey. So we watch a lot of hockey in the house and like every commercial that comes on or every slogan that's on, like the boards, and I'm like commenting on it, my husband's like, oh my God, turn it off. I literally can't Everything I see, and it's so hard because you know, sometimes they're great. And then sometimes I'm looking at one, I'm like, oh, I could help you so much, like I wish there was a way I could just tell you like, oh, you just did this one tweak.
Speaker 1:This would be so much better. That's hilarious. I do the same thing with content. Um, I I can't tell you the number of dms I want to send. People would be like just please, let me help you this, just don't, don't put that out anymore. This isn't, this is not helping you, please stop um. So I took yeah, I totally get that. Uh, because you also do as part of your content. You'll do like famous, like ads, or sometimes like somewhat controversial ads, and like do you like it, it and do you not? So I like when you like kind of highlight and illustrate like edgy content marketing, like how people use words, like there's, there's a lot more to it, I think, than most of us who aren't like in that business realize.
Speaker 2:It really is. Those have become so much fun. I think you know it started off with. I saw an ad that I was like, oh, this is fun, let me post it on a Saturday, like Saturday shenanigans on LinkedIn Did a couple of those, and the reason I keep doing it is the conversations that happen in the comments are so amazing, like they're really insightful, and every time I'll have somebody that will challenge my thinking in a way that I wasn't expecting. Like I'll post an ad that I've looked at and I'm pretty sure what I love or don't love about it, and then somebody will bring in a perspective that I hadn't considered and, um, that's been the just the most fun part, so I've shifted it.
Speaker 2:I used to always say, like, what I loved about it, um, and then would ask their opinions and more recently I've just been saying, like, here's the ad, here's what I think the intention was behind the ad, the way that it was written, what do you think? Without putting my opinion, because I really want to hear, like, what do other people have to say? And it's been really insightful. But it's also helped me uncover a lot of things people don't know that I didn't even know. They didn't know, one of the biggest things that has come up repeatedly is just an understanding of not everything. Not every piece of copy that's written, the point of it isn't always conversion Right and so so many times people be like, well, this wouldn't make me buy and I'm like that's not the point of this ad. So it's been really interesting and helpful helping me think about content ideas too.
Speaker 1:No, that's really interesting. Obviously, awareness is a big key, especially today with the saturation of messaging, so that's really important. What do you think in terms of, like? You mentioned the buyer psychology earlier, and there's obviously a ton of that in marketing. How do you go about learning it? How do you help your clients learn it? If someone out there is trying to learn more about their marketing and whatever capacity they would do it like, how do you learn buyer psychology?
Speaker 2:So I've always been fascinated by psychology. So I think it felt very natural for me to actually came into copywriting pretty well versed in a lot of those types of things, just because I like to read about it. My actual first major in college was criminology and psychology, Because I'm just always like I was the kid who could. I was up at night in middle school because I was reading books, like inside the criminal mind, Like why is she having nightmares? And I was reading all these things because I've always been fascinated by how the mind works.
Speaker 2:So for me, when I started making that shift from website copywriting to incorporating the messaging strategy, I was like we really have to figure out what makes people tick right, what is helping them make those buying decisions. So I read a lot around jobs to be done theory, around buyer psychology, around persuasion and around like what does it look like to use that in an empathetic way, Not in a way, you know, not sleazy? So I'm just constantly reading, learning about all those types of things and then I love to share about that in my emails. That's actually been shifting the content of my emails to be more about like these are insights about either these copywriting or messaging techniques, why they work, what you need to consider about them and how to use them.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Have you read Cialdini's Influence?
Speaker 2:I have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tried. That thing is thick and I think I got through like three quarters of chapter one. I was like I think I'm just going to GPT this and just be like, give me the, give me the cliff notes. I don't think I'm in for 700 pages. That's just a lot in there.
Speaker 2:It is a lot. Did you read the chapter on social proof?
Speaker 1:No, unless that was chapter one. Honestly, the only thing I remember about it and I have told this story before it is an interesting one where the jewelry store owner I think in Hawaii had the turquoise jewelry and told the employee to put it 50% off and then she left and then he did the opposite. He doubled the price and then it sold in like a day or two and then she came back and was like, oh, I'm happy we marked that down. He was like, oh yeah, I doubled the price and then the whole, like they weren't buying it because they didn't equate. They thought it was worth more. And so they're like that's mostly. That's mostly all I remember from my brief time with that book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, there's a lot of interesting antidotes in there. So I always have mixed feelings about that, Because I think some people have read it and used it for like, oh here's this thing that works, and then they use it in a way that's not necessarily. That's manipulative, and so I think that's always a caution I love there's a podcast called duped and it's the dark side of online marketing and they take the consumer advocacy standpoint, and that's actually where I've learned a lot about how I want to approach my copy is thinking about it from that lens of what are the things I want to make sure I never do, you know, or that I do in my copy because I know that it's going to resonate in the right way and really create trust and connection not, you know, manipulate somebody into buying something they don't need or want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's a good point. I haven't heard of that podcast. I'll check it out. But you mentioned your email list. That's something I've just kind of started. I didn't have never had one before. I tried to write a newsletter. When I got started, that was a disaster. I didn't like doing it and I think I ended up with like 17 signups, which is probably more than I even deserved. It was not good, so I've kind of relaunched it as a video newsletter which is still in its infancy stages. That feels a little more aligned but obviously, as a writer, that comes, I'm assuming, a little bit easier for you. What have what's kind of been your experience in terms of, like, building the email list and sending out regular emails, in terms of, like, connections, relationships and your business?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would say the first thing. So I pivoted, like I said, and it's because it's not that I have a problem writing the content, but I also had to think about what quality do I want to deliver in a way that is not going to take me four hours, like I was spending minimum four hours on the emails that I was writing initially because they were so in-depth and comprehensive and had all of these examples and people definitely found them valuable. I was getting lots of replies, but I was like I'm not sure that this is worth the trade-off of what I'm getting, because I want to make sure people, like I said, are getting insights. My email list is about community for me. I love, I love when I get a reply, I am really thinking about who's reading my email and what kinds of things are they curious about and do they want to know?
Speaker 2:Um, so you know, I wanted to make sure that when I shifted I was going to be able to keep doing those things, and that's where I really leaned into this idea of, like, I love figuring out why things work and how they work. I talk a lot about being values aligned. That's really important to me in my business, and so how do I bring that piece into everything that I'm doing? You know I work with a lot of different service-based businesses, but impact driven businesses are my favorite to work with and so I really want to make sure that the things I'm writing about speak to them. And so so far you know I started it last May wasn't super strategic in growing it until just this past January, like I've been sending one out every week, um, so you know I've gotten great engagement rates.
Speaker 2:Um, my open rates are high. My click through rates are pretty high. I get lots of replies. What I'm working on now is making sure, like, do I have a relevant audience that not only as my content going to connect with cause? I have a lot of you know peers, but figuring out how do I turn my email list into something that's also going to connect with Cause. I have a lot of you know peers, but figuring out how do I turn my email list into something that's also going to help grow my business right, where I can eventually sell some with my email list and get you know the things in the hands of people who need and want them. So yeah, so that's really my goal now is what am I doing to build my list and to collaborate with other people to do that? Does that answer your question?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's good, it's insightful, as a novice myself, if you haven't written this post, you probably have, but if you haven't, you could write it again. But I would love to see a breakdown of what is a good open rate, what is a click-through rate? What exactly does that mean? And then also what's a good one rate like what exactly does that mean? And then also what's a good one? Um, because I've, like I said I'm just started to dabble, I'm using mailer light and I look at my dashboard and so I have I have all these numbers and it's all the, you know, open and click and all the stuff, and I'm like I don't know if these are. I have no idea if there's any good. Is this good? I have no idea, um. So that would be if I'm struggling with it. There's at least one more out there. So if you want to write that post, I would encourage you.
Speaker 2:I did one a while ago on just looking at, like, my subject lines and open rates. And that was actually really interesting just to go back through the analytics and see some of them, because really I know open rates are becoming less relevant now just because of, you know, bots clicking through, opening emails, checking for spam filters, all of those things. But relative to each other it still makes sense to look at, right. So if one email has a 50% open rate and then the next one has a 30% or a 70%, that tells you something. It was really interesting looking at my open rates with my subject lines. So maybe I'll do something like that again where I sort of look at you know what gets the clicks and what gets people to open.
Speaker 2:And there were a couple of subject lines I thought were really interesting that I had people who signed up for my list. They didn't even open the welcome email, they opened nothing. But there were two emails that almost everybody opened even though they had opened absolutely nothing else at all, and I wish I remember exactly off the top of my head. One of them was holy shit, this stuff really works.
Speaker 2:I had to see what it was, but it was something similar.
Speaker 1:It's that, and like you won't open this email, I guarantee it.
Speaker 2:Don't do it open this email.
Speaker 1:I guarantee it it's. Don't do it. Uh, that's funny. Um, yeah, no, I think that's good. I, because you. I mean you see a lot of it there's.
Speaker 1:There's tons, of tons of content on linkedin about the value of an email list and start an email list and the whole rented versus owned land and all like all of that, which I totally get, but there isn't a lot of depth beyond that. It's just like start an email list, like what's's the harder than that? It doesn't. You don't just like wave a magic wand and like you just have like 5,000 people on your list, like you have to have something to talk about, you have to have a platform, you have to get them to sign up, like it's. And then what do you say after that? Like you said, like you have a welcome sequence, but then what are engage, there's much more to it. So I don't think there's a lot, and maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I don't think there's a lot of in-depth content in terms of how to actually do it, instead of just like, yep, start an email list.
Speaker 2:Do you follow Chanel Basilio? Growth in Reverse.
Speaker 1:No, I don't I think you'd like her.
Speaker 2:She sends out an email every week where she breaks down what she does is absolutely amazing, like in-depth breakdowns of how people have grown their email lists, and she does so much research and some of it is not relevant to me, right, because she's talking about people who now have 30,000 subscribers, or 100,000 subscribers, you know, and so to me, a little bit of a smaller list is more relevant right now.
Speaker 2:But, like I said, that's been my goal and ever since I said like I need to be really strategic about starting to grow my email list and for me, everything in my business has been about relationships and collaboration so far, and so I'm like, well, let me start trying that with my email. And since I've started doing that, um, you know, it's just been like four or five weeks I've doubled the number of subscribers I've been gaining every week. Um, you know, by doing things like hey, we have similar audiences. Do you go on a? Promote each other? You know, just share a link to my lead magnet, I'll share a link to your lead magnet. So doing things like that or doing workshops, things like that, have really helped too.
Speaker 1:Nice. Speaking of collaboration, I know you worked recently with Renee Lynn Froyo and I like her a lot. She's been on my podcast twice because I screwed up the audio the first time and I looked into going. She's doing another retreat in Mexico City in May and I looked into doing that. It's not going to end up working out, but how did you two get connected and how did you two collaborate?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we just I can't even remember we engaged with each other on LinkedIn for a while. Oh, I know what happened. I did a post about hey, I'm going to do a workshop, because people were coming to me saying I don't know what to write about on LinkedIn, you know. And so I was like sure, I'll do a workshop. So I did that.
Speaker 2:But I put a poll out and I said, if I do a workshop about what to write about on LinkedIn, like what are the things you would hope to walk away with? And one of the things that people kept coming back up with was a system. Right, they wanted a way to keep track and organize. That is not my strong suit. So I put a thing in the comments like that's not my strong suit. And I think Renee said something about like oh, I'd be happy to share mine. And so one of us messaged the other one. I'm like I think I just said like hey, you want to do this workshop with me, you can speak to that piece. And so she did. So we had that workshop. That was great. I'm actually excited. We've got another one we're planning for March and we just started partnering on a project that we're working on with a client together and I'm hoping I'm planning on trying to go to her retreat.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're going to go, yeah, so that's awesome. So one of the reasons that it's off the radar is I'm the only guy. It's all women and I was like You're the guy.
Speaker 2:I off the radar is. I'm the only guy like it's all women and I was like I talked to her.
Speaker 1:I knew she was like yeah, there's one guy who talked about going yeah, it's me so when, because I knew she did the one in Costa Rica in November, and then like if I see a lot of her stuff, and then she said they were gonna do it. So I really pushed hard for Denver because she did the poll right. It was like New York, like the Hamptons, I think, or nantucket, denver and mexico. I pushed hard for denver. Mexico city won in a landslide, um, and so I was like all right, fine, I've never been to, I've never been to mexico, that's fine. Um, and then in january she was like, okay, we've opened it up and I think they had like 20 or so applications and I was like any guys? And she was like, yeah, one and he's interested. And I was like, all, all right. So she, I didn't. I didn't know who he was. He was in Seattle. She gave me his name. I messaged him. I was like, hey, I hear you're thinking about going to Renee's retreat.
Speaker 1:Literally in 12 hours that I sent that message, two hours later he messaged me back and was like yep, my schedule's already changed, not going, good luck, let me know how it is. So I went back there and I was like you need more men in your circle, like what it's all women like what, you need more guys. And she was like well, don't you have any friends? Like can't you can? What about you? You should have like male connections, bring somebody. I was like I I don't know. She's like, well, then we both, we both have a guy problem. And so I was like all right. I was like I can't go to, I can't go to retreat with like 11 women that doesn't make sense so, um.
Speaker 1:So then after then I checked in with her not too long ago and she was like, yeah, it's filling up and it's going to be all women. So I was like, alright maybe next time.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I mean it sounds amazing. I mean I knew a little bit about it, but when I read the copy on the page they did for it, I just thought it was really well organized and I think it would be very valuable and beneficial to anybody that would go. I thought it would be good for me, kind of where I am in my business. But yeah, clearly I just need more. I need more male connections to drag along.
Speaker 2:And you need to start a guy's retreat.
Speaker 1:I've had people tell me that I was like I don't, I don't see retreat host in my future. That just doesn't. That doesn't seem. This doesn't seem like something I'm going to.
Speaker 1:I'm going to tackle, I'm gonna tackle, uh, but what's interesting about so and I know this from having her on my show so renee is great at I'm not surprised at all that when you put like you wanted some kind of help or it's something you weren't good at, she is terrific at like seeing stuff like that and like putting herself out there and be like I can help you, like I am good at this. I think that's how she got started with. I don't know the other woman's name that she's doing the retreats with, but I think that's how the retreats get started, cause that woman was looking for some kind of help and Renee was just like oh yeah, like I'll help you, I'll do it. So she's it's a great lesson for people out there Like if you see something and you're interested and you feel like it's an area that you can contribute, like don't hesitate, like reach out to them. You know, worst case, they say no and then sometimes you start new businesses.
Speaker 2:I need to be better about that, because I'm great about finding people who I know can fill gaps for me right, or somebody who brings a strength that I don't have to the table, but I'm not always so great about saying like, hey, I could help with that and put harder upon it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it is. It's a great lesson and, honestly, it's a power of LinkedIn, right, like she's in California, you're in North Carolina, correct?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Carolina, correct, Right, yeah, so you know, and I'm in the Midwest, so, like you know, spread out kind of throughout the country, and then you know the power of the platform. Um, we almost all ended up in Mexico city together. So, like it's just, LinkedIn is is a. It's a weird and magical place.
Speaker 2:It really is. It's so amazing to me how people like we're so spread out and how the world is still so small, how I'll run into someone like there's a woman I'm in a mastermind with right now who lives in South Carolina, who might be attending an event in North Carolina like I just met her, but she's connected with someone else I'm already connected with, and not that you know the Carolinas are too far apart from each other, but that's happened on more than one occasion where I talked with someone and they're like, oh yeah, I've been working with this person or that's my client, and it's really cool.
Speaker 1:No, it really is. It's been. That's been by far the best part of this whole journey. I've been on these last 19 or 20 months and I've just met so many amazing people from all over the world and just been very energizing and you know, everybody's smart and creative and all kind of doing their own thing.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of people supporting each other and rooting for each other and it's just a nice I don't know it's a nice place to be. It feels just, feels good, it does. Yeah, I'm so. I mean I love how many people I've met and connected with on LinkedIn and they all get a chance to meet them in person and it is just like connecting with a friend. You know you build. You can build really genuine and real connections here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think part of it is the content, cause if you read, if you, if you read somebody's content pretty consistently, I feel like, again, if they're sharing even a little bit about themselves, right, you feel like you start to know them. And then if you have zoom calls, that's a different level and then, yeah, you meet them in person and so it does feel, yeah, like they're, even though they are a stranger in person. They're not a stranger because you've commented, you've engaged, you've talked and it's a, it's a really unique, uh, it's a really unique setup. But, yeah, the people, some people I've met in person, it feels like I've known them for like most of my adult life.
Speaker 2:Exactly Yep.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's really cool. Um, do you, how intentional are you? Do you, how intentional are you? Do you, do you do?
Speaker 2:like a set number of zoom calls. You just kind of have them happen organically. Um, like, how do you approach the whole kind of relationship building part? Um, I have actually am being more intentional now, cause I was doing so many at one point that it got a little bit overwhelming. Um, I don't necessarily have like a I'm going to try and hit this number every single week, but what I've been trying to do is make sure that I'm connecting with people who, um who I know that we can provide value and support to each other. You know, I'm not always I'm not getting on a call necessarily like thinking, oh, can I pitch you to be my client?
Speaker 2:That's never the goal with those calls. So no, I mean, I think sometimes it just feels like a natural extension of this is the next step. Hey, we've been engaging with each other's content forever. And then sometimes it's intentional with networking, where I'll talk with someone and say, hey, I'm really looking to collaborate with more people who have a similar target audience. Do you know anybody else who works with impact driven B2B businesses? So you know, it just depends. But I am more purposeful now because I was just doing so many. So now I limit myself to doing four a week, because I was doing well over that before and what I found is I couldn't intentionally follow up with people, I couldn't keep those relationships going. So I'm really trying to make sure that I'm only connecting with people that I know that it's a relationship that I can continue to grow and build if it's going to be, you know, beneficial to both of us to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. You mentioned your love of reading. Do you read? Is a fiction, nonfiction, mix of both? How do you, how do you decide there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, mix of both, I love. I've been reading a lot of parenting books lately. I've got a 16 year old. Most recent one was I listened to my parents? Was I would listen to my parents if they would just shut up? Um, that's when I just finished. Um, no, I read a little bit of everything. I go through phases where sometimes I'll read a whole bunch of business stuff. Um, I've sort of eased off of that some because I you know that separation between work when you own your business, especially when you work from home, right, you have to learn how to turn it off. So I love a variety of things. I love historical fiction memoirs. I really enjoy reading those pretty much, unless it's sci-fi or romance.
Speaker 1:I'm into it. Do you watch a lot of like CSI and NCIS and Criminal Minds and all that, since you loved all that as a kid.
Speaker 2:I used to. I used to and then I don't know if it was like becoming a mom or what it was. But I don't enjoy that as much anymore. I still love figuring out what makes people tick, but the violence piece of it I'm not as excited about anymore.
Speaker 1:Got it, okay yeah.
Speaker 2:Not that I'm excited about violence, but well, when you're younger it's more fascinating.
Speaker 1:When you get older, you're like that could happen to me right yeah, I, I used to listen to a lot of crime like true crime podcasts when I was stuck in the cubicle that was. I went on a big kick, uh, with that. I don't do that much anymore and I think part of it is like getting older and my kids are a little bit older. My oldest is 15 and a half. He'll be 16 this summer. Um, so yeah, I think that does. I think that does change, like your outlook, a little bit. Um, I'll have to look for that book, but he that now does, your is, is it just son? Your son is 16 yeah, is he?
Speaker 1:does he play a lot of video games. He has earbuds in all the time is he on his phone all the time does he watch youtube shorts?
Speaker 2:yes, yes, the time. Does he watch YouTube shorts? Yes, yes, yes, so the?
Speaker 1:eyes fall out. Okay yeah, we're on the same page.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean he's pretty good about. I will say, like one thing I love is, whenever I go to pick him up from school, like the first thing he does is take his earbuds out. He does parkour, and every time I'm always so like we get in the doesn't want to talk the whole time. I'm like his earbuds aren't in, so I know he's ready for a conversation potentially.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting. So I just recently, in the last couple of weeks, we got invited to play it's pickup basketball on Sunday mornings. So it's 630 in the morning. It's a bunch of dads and then like a bunch of freshmen in high school. And just to let me talk about just generationally right, there were two kids this last week that played the games with at least one earbud in, like they were listening to music while playing a full court basketball game and I was like this is not going to be a long game. You can't take what you can't take a break. Do you need that music?
Speaker 2:while you're running, like what is happening? It's incredible. Do you need that music? While you're running, like what is happening? It's incredible, yeah. So my son also plays hockey and my husband coaches and last season he didn't lay down rules in the locker room about phones initially. And we were playing the game and I look over and they're on the bench and all the kids are like this. I'm like dude, you're on the shift, like you're on the ice for a minute, you get off for a minute and then you go back on. And he was like, yeah, I nipped that in the bud as soon as we got back into the locker room, but he was like it wasn't a conversation I thought I was gonna have to have when you're playing hockey, but sure enough, that game. Like nobody paid attention to anything, it was really.
Speaker 1:It was wild paid attention to anything. It was really. It was wild. Well, it's just, you know, I mean social media. They've done a great job. It's addicting, right. They just the the moving images and all the different stuff and he, we, he doesn't have like snapchat or instagram, like we haven't let him create like accounts, but I think, honestly, just youtube and just like the nonsensical shorts that he watches, just for like hours on end, it's like don't you just get tired of that? Like you don't want to they don't.
Speaker 2:They don't. No, they don't mind us too. Like he doesn't have social media mostly by choice we are would not be fans of it either, but like he, he has no desire. But yeah, he watches the dumbest youtube clips and yes, I don't know yeah, and then he used to play a lot of fortnite.
Speaker 1:And then now my youngest is kind of the Fortniter and he if he plays video games now it's like NBA 2K or Madden or like NCAA football with his neighborhood kids. But but Fortnite is big with my 11 year old. He's a. He's a future YouTube gamer, streamer, twitch account, wannabe influencer. That's his career, life goal.
Speaker 1:Gotta have goals exactly, um, so, yeah, this has been great. We're almost an hour. I really appreciate coming on. Uh, we'll finish. Since we start with pulp fiction, we'll finish it up because, again, I could talk about it all day. What, like, what is your like when you, when you think about it? Like, what do you, what do you love about it? How many times you think you've seen it? Um, like, what's your favorite scene? That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Like I said, it's been a long time since I've watched it in entirety, but I would say I mean I know I've for sure at least seen it. A gross underestimate would be 20 times like all the way through.
Speaker 2:I love the soundtrack yeah the soundtrack is amazing, like one of the scenes I always love is when, um, they're in the diner and it's time for the dance competition and Mito Wallace looks at him and is like we're going to dance. And the expression on John Travolta's face is priceless, like I always love that scene. And then who doesn't love the Royale with cheese conversation?
Speaker 1:Absolutely what I love about the diner. I actually I do quote this one a lot because he she orders the five dollar shake and he's like that's a five dollar shake, just milk and ice cream, no bourbon or nothing, and the you know the waiter's like whatever, and then when he gets it he's like. He's like I gotta know what a five dollar shake tastes like.
Speaker 1:Like I love that whole back and forth yes, yeah, that whole scene was great yeah, and they I mean it gave Travolta a chance to dance, which was like his thing, like anyway, so that was brilliant. There's a flaw? So when they leave and they go to Eric Stoltz's house after she ODs, next time you watch it. So that whole scene also is one of my favorites, when they're trying to figure out how they're going to give her the shot and he's yelling at Eric Stoltz, who's yelling at his wife, and then they're like well, I don't know, We've never really done this, and it's just like so chaotic. Meanwhile she's like dying on the floor. But when he and he's like so, I stab her three times Like no, no, no, like just once, anyway.
Speaker 2:So notice next time I'll have to keep it. I feel like I've heard that before, I think, and I yeah, I'll have to look for that next time. I really want to watch it again now that we were talking about it tonight.
Speaker 1:You're like we're watching fall fiction. I've talked about the whole movie. We need to see all these, all these scenes. Um, yeah, one of my other favorite lines is when, because after they go to, uh, tarantino's house and harvey kaitel comes and helps them out of the whole situation, and then they're like Keitel's hosing them off and it's cold and they put those clothes on and then they're like making fun of them for the clothes. And then I think Samuel Jackson's like well, the your clothes, motherfucker. To Tarantino I think that's one of the most underrated lines like in the movie, like making fun of them or like, well, we're wearing your shit Because of you. Yeah, no, I was surprised. I forgot that it was 30 years old and it was October of 94. I remember last year I don't know what the exact date was and then they were like you know, it's 30 this year and I was like, oh my God, I cannot believe that it's been 30 years. But that's one of the few movies I've seen.
Speaker 1:I saw it in a theater twice within like five't even know if that was good. I don't even actually know what I watched. Then you watch it the second time and then, honestly, the second time it was kind of the same thing. You're like I still don't really know what has happened, what's the plot, I don't know. And then obviously over time it all comes together. But I don't think I've seen too many movies like theater within like like four or five days. Um, because it was just. It was like nothing you'd ever like, nothing like that had ever been done, like if the whole non-linear and then just the mix and match in and out and the different like segments of scenes that were pretty long scenes, and then something else would just completely like just shift, and you'd be like what, what does that have to do with this? And then eventually it all kind of comes together like like I don't know how he came up with it, but it's, it's just true, true genius yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:That's just gonna say it's pretty genius yeah, there's a thing do you know who billy oppenheimer is? Do you see any of his stuff on linkedin? Yeah, um, he wrote. He's wrote a couple about tarantino, but one of them that was really fascinating is that he has like and I've read this in books but like he had designated time built into his schedule, I think he just like went to his pool and like, just like laid in the pool and just like let like, just let everything like relax, like his brain just kind of relax, and that's where he got like a lot of like creative ideas.
Speaker 1:Um, he wasn't plugged in, he wasn't trying to write, he wasn't like trying to force it, but it was like and he kind of trained his brain, like his brain became adjusted to that around that time it kind of knew that it was going to be time to just like chill, and then he credited that with a lot of like things he came up with and, um, I think all of us could benefit from like more breaks, like throughout the day yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's always right. Whenever I'm stuck and I'm writing and I can't think, I'm like let me go take a walk, or or whatever the case. And you know, of course the best idea is always come in the shower um, always. But yeah, like my family's gotten used to that, my husband used to like run up the stairs and check because I'd be in the shower and I'd be like, hey, siri, and I'd be like writing a note to myself.
Speaker 1:They're like, oh, she just got a linkedin post idea now 100, 100, shower, walking, the dog running, um, driving without like anything on. I think those are probably the four, and they're almost all. The common denominator is you know, no device because I don't take my phone on dog walks or I don't run with my phones. Yeah, it's amazing what happens once you just stop being stimulated and allow everything to kind of settle and then, all of a sudden, you start to be able to generate ideas. Well, this is great. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on and sharing your background, your insight, very, very insightful in terms of the copywriting world and marketing and like how it's all you know tied together, which, again, I don't think a lot of people think of. Uh, any final thoughts, any any uh thing you want to leave the audience with. And then how can they find you? A LinkedIn website or any any place else?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Um final thoughts. I don't mean go watch Pulp Fiction if you haven't seen it.
Speaker 1:Um, we've given the whole movie away, but yes, yeah, it's still worth the watch.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean, I just think the biggest thing is you know, whenever you are thinking about your marketing or your copywriting, like just it's really about knowing and understanding your audience and being sure that you're being intentional with how you're talking. And then you know, don't follow for any of the BS, gimmicky, garbage. That would be my biggest message. But other than that, you know where people can find me is LinkedIn. I'm there mostly every day. Love to connect and engage with people on LinkedIn and also my email list. Since I'm working on growing that bigger, we should do a little plug here. Every week I send out insights and I love feedback on that. So those would be two great places I'd love to connect with people.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, again, thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. Stacey, Take care.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.